A guest today from Tommy Kane, who works at Holyrood for Neil Findlay MSP, both of whom have been setting out left arguments against independence ahead of the referendum. Tommy’s the co-editor of the Red Paper discussed below, alongside Pauline Bryan.
Reaction to ‘Class, Nation and Socialism: The Red Paper on Scotland 2014’ confirms, as the old saying goes, you can’t please all of the people all of the time. Amongst the critiques has been the accusation that the Red Paper Collective has been indulging in ‘fantasy politics’. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Red Paper has quite deliberately sought to do the opposite.
This book isn’t about whether we should be Scottish or British; rather this is a book about class. It should be no surprise to find then that a central supposition of the contributors is that, whatever the constitution, powers must have a purpose. Namely, that we have to start addressing, substantively and not just paying lip service to, the deep inequities, which shamefully still exist in the Scotland of 2013.
It is also contended that Scotland won’t tackle the multitude of problems it faces with a border, a flag or even a list of powers – it will only do through a radical political agenda which seeks to radically challenge the perpetual failure of the dominant neo-liberal orthodoxy, a failure which has revisited us again in the guise of an austerity programme precipitated by a fundamental failure of the market system. It is against that backdrop that the thinking of the Red Paper Collective has developed during discussions over the past two years.
Featuring people who every day work for, and in the interests of, working people it should be no surprise to hear that the group who made up the Red Paper concluded early on that an assessment of what model would best serve and advance the interests of ordinary working people was needed prior to next year’s referendum. This included considerations of the status quo and some form of enhanced devolution, as well as independence. Posing this hypothesis necessitates, in fact demands, an answer grounded in political and economic realities: a direction in tune with the natural instinct of nearly all of the contributors, who in their daily working lives simply cannot afford to pander to fantasy.
A political reality is that the SNP Government won’t dissolve; they will carry on under the guise of Scotland’s party fighting Scotland’s corner. Initially this will include them writing a constitution, which will be hard to undo, and that no doubt will incorporate membership of the EU, a UK currency union (impacting on tax raising and public spending policies), remaining loyal to the monarchy and reducing corporation tax so as to attract the inward investment that can only result in a race to the bottom. Such a proposition could actually be interpreted as a form of federalism and not independence at all; critically, however, it would be an arrangement in thrall to neo-liberal thinking.
Economic realities are expertly laid forth by John Foster and Richard Leonard in the book. They show clearly how external ownership of the Scottish economy is growing. Unless I have missed something, there is no suggestion of any change on that front, unless a Lazarus-style recovery is made by those political parties who advocate appropriation. Therefore, you would have a Scottish economy still externally controlled, predominately in the city of London, but without any ability to intervene and curb that power. In such a circumstance political self-determination is, arguably, fatally undermined from the start.
The strength of the book we think also lies in its multiplicity. To take a couple of examples, Alan MacKinnon unpacks and analyses just how realistic the removal of Trident will be in an independent Scotland, particularly given the conversion of the SNP to the cause of NATO. Stephen Smellie, Vince Mills and Gordon Munro argue for an empowerment of local government, asking why within the current constitutional debate the role of councils is not being discussed.
Another section of the book considers democratic ownership of our economy. The value of this section is in the production of pragmatic, but progressive, policy ideas. Indeed, these chapters provide a pathway for progressing public ownership in various and varied sectors ranging from football to energy, but which acknowledges that this need not mean a homogenous version of public ownership. No matter the result of the referendum next year, these are chapters that offer any (progressive) government sound policy ideas.
At the heart of both ‘Yes’ mainstream and Radical Indy thinking is that there can be no British Road to Socialism. Apart from the obvious question of how and why anybody thinks the Scottish Road will be any easier this point does throw up some philosophical considerations. Is it right, for example, that we take the lifeboat strategy whereby the lifeboat escaping from the sinking ship takes only Scots without any recourse or concern for those left behind? Or, should we remain united with our brothers and sisters to fight and change from within; to this end it’s worth bearing in mind the advances made by working people and how it was class unity that helped achieve progress.
Of course, class analysis permeates throughout the book, not least the question of how working class unity would be impacted upon independence. Underpinning this throughout is the implicit belief that a bricklayer in Bathgate has more in common with a bricklayer in Bridlington than he has with the banker in Edinburgh’s financial sector. Some suggest otherwise, however, and say that we could offer a good example to the more reactionary forces elsewhere in the UK. Such an argument makes assumptions that may reflect more their own wishes than political reality.
The truth is that, as Stephen Low and Vince Mills highlight, social attitudes are very similar in Scotland and the North of England and we cannot assume that Scots are more inclined to left politics than their counterparts in England, especially those Northern regions. These arguments quite simply also ignore how class consciousness not national consciousness has been at the root of material advancement for working people across the UK. Working class unity provides greater capacity to challenge the dominance of international capitalism and we weaken that at our peril. Such a class analysis is, or should be, an inescapable principle of socialists that each of the Red Paper contributors forcefully remind us of.
Finally, the book suggests that perhaps an enhanced devolution settlement is something that needs considered: thus reflecting, if the polls are to be believed, the views of more Scots than those who support either of the Yes or No positions. This was a small, but nevertheless important, dimension of the book. Enhanced devolution, perhaps within a Federal system that also considers what’s best for the regions of England, amongst others, would provide us sufficient autonomy to tackle poverty and inequality but would still see us retain our link with the rest of the UK.
Such a model would also enable us to work constructively within the UK and for instance enable us to argue and fight for peace when for example the UK Government consider embarking on foreign adventures. If Scotland was outwith the UK then wars would take place regardless, Scotland might not be in them but war itself would still take place. Remaining within provides Scots with a voice to argue against war.
‘Class, Nation and Socialism: The Red Paper on Scotland 2014’ has sought to instil some class thinking into the current constitutional debate, which up until now has been sadly lacking. We recognise we have merely scratched the surface but nevertheless we have, we hope, provided food for thought, particularly thinking about what type of country we aspire to be, or should aspire to be.
#1 by Jim Boylan on September 16, 2013 - 1:44 pm
There is no British Road to Socialism, the Labour, Tory & Lib-Dem parties all offer equally Thatcherite policies & UKIP’s influence could drag them all even further to the right.
While a Scottish Road to Socialism wont be easy bit it is achievable & a goal worthy of the efforts required.
A successful Socialist Scotland also offers to chance to demonstrate to the rest of the UK that a socially just, tolerant and caring society can flourish & prosper in the UK. This may incentivize the left in the rest of the UK into the action required to break free from the current Neo-Lib paradigm.
#2 by Peter A Bell on September 16, 2013 - 3:24 pm
I got as far as the assertion that the SNP would write Scotland’s new constitution and immediately realised this was just another British Labour loyalist dealing, not with political realities as pompously claimed, but the tired old British Labour caricature of the party for which they harbour such intellect-crippling resentment and raw hatred.
The reality is that the SNP will NOT be writing the constitution. It will be a collective, collaborative process into which all the political parties in Scotland will be invited along with all manner of other groups and the general public.
As if this was not enough evidence of the detachment from Scottish politics that is characteristic of the British parties we are offered yet another rehashing of the “further powers” fantasy.
Here is the news, laddie! There is no devo-whatever option in the referendum. The British parties rejected such an option with a vehemence that tells us all we need to know of their real attitude to further devolution behind all the empty rhetoric and jam tomorrow promises.
The political reality is that a No vote is a vote for the status quo AT BEST! It is a vote AGAINST Scotland’s rightful constitutional status and a vote FOR the arrangement which allows the powers of the Scottish Parliament to be determined and limited by a government that has been decisively rejected by the people of Scotland.
The political reality is that the British parties are trying to deceive the people of Scotland into thinking that a No vote is a vote for more powers at the same time as they are arguing that those same powers would be catastrophic for Scotland in the context of independence. Hypocrisy and duplicity!
I am sympathetic to most of the arguments coming from the left in Scotland. It only becomes problematic when these arguments arrive having been filtered through a British Labour Party that long since abandoned socialist principles and betrayed all those who put their trust in it.
I will listen to and, where I feel it appropriate, support arguments for radical reform where these are advanced by people who put the interests of the people of Scotland before the interests of a British political party. However superficially appealing their rhetoric may be, I will have no truck with those whose first priority is the preservation of the British state and, inevitably, the structures of power and privilege that it represents.
Independence is the key to meaningful social, economic and political reform in Scotland. All else is the false promise of knaves and fools.
#3 by blunttrauma on September 16, 2013 - 3:58 pm
Man the lifeboat!!!
#4 by Stephen on September 16, 2013 - 4:09 pm
#1 “A successful Socialist Scotland also offers to chance to demonstrate to the rest of the UK that a socially just, tolerant and caring society can flourish & prosper in the UK” Do the rest of the UK need to be told or shown that a better society is possible isn’t this just maybe a wee bit patronising?
Does the SNP’s welcoming George Osbornes Corporation Tax cuts and promising more come Independence, and boasting of having the ‘‘the most generous system of business rates relief anywhere in the UK’ count as Thatcherite?
#5 by John Souter on September 16, 2013 - 4:21 pm
You reaffirm the dogma of the them and us and advocate re-energising the pendulum of left V right when the hard facts of experience have shown both lead to perdition.
We don’t need division. We do need unity covering all spheres of a vocational society.
By down playing the opportunities Scotland could /would gain from achieving its independence in favour of some supra national global socialism movement, you are offering little but arid hope while giving legitimacy to the aspirations of global neo liberalism.
On the issue as it relates to Scotland I agree with both of the previous commentators – they are pragmatic, progressive, principled and evolutionary, you on the other hand are confusing radical with revolution.
#6 by Neil Findlay MSP on September 16, 2013 - 5:01 pm
Peter this comment is ghastly – if we are to have a genuine debate about Scotland’s future – it has to be on the basis that people can contribute to that debate without being abused and accused of things that are both insulting and downright offensive.
In one short comment you use a stream of negative comments about a person and people you know nothing about and book you have not read.
I hope for all our sakes that this debate is elevated to higher level than this.
All genuine comments positive and negative are welcome but let’s do it in a civilised manner.
#7 by Juteman on September 16, 2013 - 5:27 pm
@Neil.
I can’t see anything ghastly in Peters comments.
Can you point out the ‘ghastly’ items, and where he has been offensive?
As far as I can see, he has simply pointed out the reality of where we are.
#8 by James on September 16, 2013 - 5:46 pm
Come on, it was hardly a polite contribution to the debate. I’m really not going to let this descend into a slanging match: every comment so far has been approved, but please, people, keep it civil.
#9 by Jim Boylan on September 16, 2013 - 5:47 pm
#4 Yes, people do need to be reminded that a “socially just, tolerant and caring society can flourish & prosper” once upon a time that job would have fell to the Labour party but they abandoned those beliefs leaving nobody to put forward the case for the kind of society I think both of us want to see.
#10 by Steve on September 16, 2013 - 6:11 pm
20 out of the 23 contributors to your book are men.
Well done.
#11 by Keir Hardly on September 16, 2013 - 11:52 pm
The tired old arguments deployed here have been debunked so many times it’s scarcely worth bothering.
Why would socialism be easier to achieve in Scotland? Because Scotland hasn’t voted Tory in 60 years, whereas the UK has voted Tory for the majority of that time.
Why should we take the lifeboats? Because our staying and drowning won’t help anyone. Scottish votes make no difference to UK governments. The ONLY thing of any practical value that we can do for the people of the rest of the UK is set an example they can look to of a very similar neighbouring nation proving that social democracy IS viable, even as all three UK parties abandon it to chase Middle England swing votes.
We’ve spent 70 years trying to push the UK to the left from within Westminster. Where’s it got us? The most evil Tory government ever, which didn’t even need to win a majority to put its vile policies into action, because Labour had broken the ground for almost all of them and because the Lib Dems had no ideological reason to oppose them.
Labour is now a party of nuclear weapons, nuclear power, Work Capability Assessments, the bedroom tax (which it invented in 2008), illegal wars, workfare, PFI draconian attacks on civil liberties, and opposition to immigration. I admire anyone still trying to change it, but you might as well try to push back the tide with a sponge.
You’ve had a lifetime and failed. It’s time we tried another way.
#12 by Iain Menzies on September 17, 2013 - 1:25 am
Just because Scotland hasnt voted (in a majority) for the tory party in 60 years doesnt mean that scotland is socialist. you can moan all you like about the labour party not being socialist enough….but i dont think your really going to get very far convincing anyone that the SNP are radically to the left of labour. in fact on those occassions (every scottish election pretty much) where all scots have been offered a hard left option the majority response has be to reject it.
The whole lets show an example point is just silly with respect. Uk media doesnt pay that much attention to what happens in most of England, never mind the rest of the UK, why the London/Manchester BBC would pay anymore attention to a foreign country is beyond me. its not like they keep showing documentries showing how wonderful ireland is (or was).
The idea that scotland has tried to push the Uk to the left is an interesting one. ive never seen anything that really backs that up, but feel free to keep on thinking it….the UK is a free country after all.
Also your rose tinted view of what Labour WAS is interesting. Nuclear weapons? WHo do you think it was that started the post warBritish nuclear weapons programme? Dont want nuclear power? fine, but be ready to burn that oil fund to keep the lights on. Work Capability assesments? what so people who can work should be able to rock up to the Job centre claim to be unfit to work and spend the rest of their lives on the sick? object to the process sure, but good luck selling a free hand out to the able on the door step. and Labour didnt invent these in 2008, they reintroduced them…as they were part of the initial post war setup. Illegal wars? which illegal wars? unless your suggesting a pacifist foreign policy, in which case remember that a majority of all of the UK supported Iraq (before it all went wrong). Workfare is a policy that has been very effective elsewhere, why would we not do that? PFI/PPP if done right is a good way to get extra investment, the problem is the application not the policy. on civil liberties, again be specific, not much has been suggested that isnt done elsewhere or has been put in place that really has mass opposition from the public. As for immigration NO major UK party (even UKIP) is opposed to immigration, what they are all opposed to (like 90 odd % of the public is an open door policy.
#13 by Keir Hardly on September 17, 2013 - 9:16 am
It’s fitting, of course, that it’s a Tory who answers criticism of Labour.
“i dont think your really going to get very far convincing anyone that the SNP are radically to the left of labour”
I disagree. Not only because they clearly ARE significantly to the left of Labour (see http://www.politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010), but because much of the Scottish electorate has already been convinced of that fact. The SNP’s strongest demographic is the working class, or in the modern parlance the C2DE group, which was once the bedrock of Labour support.
“To the left of Labour” doesn’t equate to “hard left”, but then nobody was saying it did, and nobody is proposing Communism here. Socialism is a moderate, left-of-centre, democratic and capitalism philosophy, and it’s a bit dull when Tories keep lazily equating it with some sort of Stalinist dictatorship.
The question, let’s remember, was “Why would it be easier to enact a more socialist programme in Scotland than the UK?”, and the answer to that is that by any conceivable measure Scotland is at least MORE socialist than the UK as a whole. The gulf in general election voting since WW2 could hardly support that claim any more conclusively.
“Uk media doesnt pay that much attention to what happens in most of England, never mind the rest of the UK, why the London/Manchester BBC would pay anymore attention to a foreign country is beyond me.”
Firstly, I’m not at all sure you’re right. I think Scotland voting for independence would come as an absolutely enormous shock to most people in the rest of the UK, who are constantly fed the narrative that it’ll never happen. It would be extraordinary if the media didn’t show a huge amount of interest in subsequent developments, even if only because they hoped to watch it all unravel disastrously.
But secondly, your argument is a straw man. I didn’t claim that Scotland setting a social-democratic example would be SUCCESSFUL in persuading the English et al to move leftwards, just that it would be MORE practical than Scotland uselessly voting Labour when England voted Tory. Since the effect of Scottish votes on UK governments rounds to zero, independence couldn’t possibly be LESS effective.
“The idea that scotland has tried to push the Uk to the left is an interesting one. ive never seen anything that really backs that up, but feel free to keep on thinking it”
I’m not sure how else anyone could possibly interpret an unbroken 60 years of voting Labour. Has any other country on Earth, save for actual one-party dictatorships, voted for the same party for the last six decades without a single blip?
Your other comments on Labour I’ll pass on in order to keep the length of this reply manageable, and because they’re irrelevant to anything I was saying in my post.
#14 by Jim Boylan on September 17, 2013 - 10:09 am
#12 Labour are not to the left of any mainstream UK party, with the possible exception of UKIP.
We are talking about a party who during 13 years in power didn’t reverse a single one of Thatchers attacks on the working class, that introduced the Under Occupancy Charge aka bedroom tax, hired ATOS, introduced student fees, helped the Tories introduce retrospective legislation to allow forced unpaid labour after a judge had ruled workfare illegal, started privatising the NHS & tried to privatise the Royal Mail.
Anyone who still thinks Labour are a left wing party is either deliberatly fooling themselves or has just teleported from the 1950’s