A guest post today from Labour MSP Ken Macintosh, who shadows John Swinney at Holyrood. Ken’s blogged for us before, and been blogged about too. Thanks Ken!
How do you turn a deficit into a surplus? According to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, simply start calling it a “relative surplus”. John Swinney revealed his distorted logic in Parliament recently during a debate on Scotland’s public finances. It was a debate supposedly designed to demonstrate the financial strength of Scotland compared to the rest of the UK, but in the event the SNP inadvertently illuminated some of the contradictions at the heart of the Yes campaign and left John Swinney in contortions.
The SNP assert that Scotland is £4.4bn “better off” than the rest of the UK. This figure is then translated by Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon et al as £824 for every Scot, money that apparently could be spent, saved or invested, in fact remarkably it is claimed, all three at once.
The trouble with this set of assertions is that they conveniently ignore the fact that the £4.4bn does not refer to a surplus or an extra amount of money, but to a deficit. Scotland is spending more than it earns and the deficit for the UK is even greater. The “relative surplus” as John Swinney euphemistically describes it, is the difference between the two deficits, i.e. a larger deficit. At best the SNP’s claim should be something like ‘our overdraft is not quite as bad as your overdraft’.
The first observation to make is that not having such a big deficit as the UK does not give £824 to every Scot, nor does it give us money to spend, nor to save nor to invest. You would expect the country’s Financial Secretary to know this, but it would appear not. During the debate Mr Swinney talked about a cumulative relative surplus over several years and then about potentially using this to pay down borrowings. Does he not understand that to “access” this non-existent surplus, Scotland would have to increase its deficit, in other words, we’d have to increase our borrowings.
But perhaps the more important point is that the “relative” state of our finances is about to change. Within three years it is the rest of the UK which will have the smaller deficit. How do I know this? Because John Swinney himself shared this information with a select few senior SNP colleagues in his leaked cabinet paper.
Quoting verbatim from Mr Swinney’s report: “Including a geographical share of North Sea revenues, both Scotland and the UK are expected to run a net fiscal deficit in each of the years to 2016-17. Before 2016-17, Scotland is projected to have a smaller deficit, as a share of GDP, than the UK. However, in 2016-17, OBR forecasts suggest that Scotland would have a marginally larger net fiscal deficit than the UK.”
It is at this point my exasperation turns from frustration to mistrust. It is one thing to have a he says/she says political disagreement, it is quite another for the Scottish Cabinet Secretary to be telling us all one thing in public while secretly briefing his political colleagues on the truth in private.
Last month Mr Swinney told assembled SNP delegates; “Scotland has strong foundations, perhaps some of the strongest from which any country has sought its independence,” whilst telling the SNP cabinet “downward revisions have resulted in a deterioration in the outlook for Scotland’s public finances”. He stated from the conference platform without a blush “in all the debate about Scotland’s financial future, one point is very clear, the real risk to Scotland comes from staying part of the United Kingdom,” whilst briefing the select few “At present HM Treasury and DWP absorb the risk … in future we will assume responsibility for managing such pressure. This will imply more volatility in overall spending than at present.”
Now I remain optimistic that when it comes to the referendum, most people will see through such deliberate attempts at misinformation, but what happens to Scotland in the mean time? How can anyone have confidence in a Cabinet Secretary who is so clearly not being straight with us about the public finances? If every issue from oil revenues to what we do about the bedroom tax is used as an opportunity to make the case for independence, how on earth can we have an honest discussion of what can be done now, to help Scottish households now, using the powers we have now?
What I find so disappointing is that some in the SNP at least recognise the truth about the economic difficulties we are facing but rather than deviate from the accepted independence script they tie themselves in linguistic knots. No one can change an absolute deficit into a relative surplus by words alone, and if the SNP think they can give us the relative truth rather than the honest information, they will absolutely lose our respect and our trust.
#1 by Indy on May 8, 2013 - 11:39 am
The UK deficit isn’t coming down as projected though, is it?
That’s the thing about using one set of projected figures from a year ago. Projections change.
It’s a fair cop to say the SNP probably talk the economy up – but the other side of that is that Labour also talk it down.
The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. An independent Scotland would start out in pretty much the same position we’re in now. Public finances will still be constrained but the Scottish Government would have the advantage of being able to link up all areas of policy to achieve their goals- rather than the artificial divide between devolved/reserved – and the needs of the Scottish people and economy would be the number one priority for government, not subsumed within the wider needs of the UK.
As for what the particular goals and policies of the Scottish government would be – well, that would be for the electors to decide.
#2 by James on May 8, 2013 - 11:47 am
A very fair response, I think.
#3 by Ross on May 8, 2013 - 2:34 pm
I’m sorry but the idea that the Scottish economy and economic policy can somehow exist in isolation from the rest of the UK, whether independent or not, is naive to say the least – especially if, as the SNP proposes, an ‘independent’ Scotland is underwritten by the Bank of England. In that case our interests would not simply be subsumed within the wider needs of the UK but within the needs of another country entirely.
#4 by Indy on May 8, 2013 - 4:32 pm
Who said they would exist in isolation?
#5 by Ross on May 9, 2013 - 9:47 am
It follows from the idea you can have a radically different economic policy whilst tied to another state’s currency and central bank. Not realistic, though clearly not the only restraint when the economic case for ‘independence’ is predicated on theoretical oil booms and fiscal surpluses which are at best, best case scenarios and at worse, works of fiction.
#6 by Indy on May 9, 2013 - 11:36 pm
Again, who said we would have a radically different economic policy?
We could do if we elected a radical government – in which case we would probably not be tied to the Bank of England.
Or we could play it safe -which many would say would be the sensible option for a new country anyway.
We’d have the choice either way, which we don’t have now.
And we would have that all-important ability to prioritise Scotland’s needs as well as the ability to join up different areas of policy. That may not sound particularly radical but it would make an enormous difference by for example integrating social security better and making sure it aligns with services like early years and childcare, support for carers, employability etc.
#7 by Ross on May 10, 2013 - 2:26 pm
Your ‘choice’ argument appears untroubled by the realities of a globalised economy but if centralisation of policy is the key then you’d also advocate withdrawing from the EU and abolishing local government – they after all are the ones who provide most of the services you cite.
Your argument also appears to assume the economic and social interests of people in Dumfries are radically different to those in Carlisle. Putting aside the dubious assumption that there would be some kind of financial largesse at the disposal of an ‘independent’ Scottish state to pay for all these services (especially when the SNP are advocating tax cuts), I’d venture to suggest that, for most Scots their desire to shape better services and social improvement does not stop at the border with England. Even if you were to dismiss the practicalities and implications of secession as mere details, seeking to solve these problems by regressing into parochialism does not strike me as a very progressive vision.
#8 by Chris on May 8, 2013 - 1:10 pm
The problem is that the GERS figures contain a lot of very questionable assumptions. The relative deficit is the result of these.
Two of the biggest and scariest assumptions are on the cost of state pension liabilities and on the share of corporation tax receipts.
As Scotland has a greater proportion of public sector employment it would be reasonable to assume that our share of public sector pension liabilities would be more than a per capita share. We are likely in the end when we add up the number of public sector pensioners in Scotland (or whatever way we use to count our share) that our share will be higher. NB this is not the same pension point made by ICAS last week.
The greater proportion of the population working in the public sector also makes a pro rata share of corporation tax profits unlikely. Firstly we have a smaller proportion of our population working in the private sector and secondly London, as a major world city, attracts companies who will not be making one-tenth of their profits in Scotland.
However the GERS figures (as far as I understand) make these rather broadbrush assumptions. So I suspect that the actual relative difference is overstated.
#9 by scotchwoman on May 8, 2013 - 1:13 pm
Sorry Ken, your team created this financial and economic disaster. Yes, it’s a deficit but it’s significantly lower than the UK as a whole. How is that bad news? It gives Scotland far greater flexibility in addressing the issue.
Why don’t you turn your back on the UK Labour party, which is disappearing down Tory Lane, and focus on what Labour could achieve for Scotland’s people? You’d need some policies mind you…..
#10 by AFaulds on May 8, 2013 - 1:44 pm
Apart from the point about inaccurate projections that’s already been made, there are two further points about the projected deficits of UK and Scotland;
Firstly, the projected deficit of Scotland in the 2016/17 period is around 2%. That opponents have seized on this as proof of economic disaster is depressing, seeing as it is comfortably within the 3% deficit limit recommended by the EU. Of course, the ideal would be not to have a deficit at all, but the UK has run one almost every year (except 6, see here; http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data#zoomed-picture) since at least 1979 and hasn’t (quite!) collapsed from sheer economic badness yet, so I hardly expect Scotland will either.
Second, Scotland’s deficit will still have been lower for five of the seven years in that period. If you average out the deficit as a % of GDP (perhaps not the most accurate thing to do), Scotland comes out at about 3.8% and the UK at 5%. The fact the UK suddenly has a lower deficit for doesn’t change the fact that it has still racked up a higher debt over the previous years.
#11 by Gerard on May 8, 2013 - 2:38 pm
Sorry Scotchwoman the bankers did – Labour didn’t regulate properly but didn’t create the disaster. Also Alex Salmond and the current chancellor both argued for less regulation so no-one comes out of the regulation debate with gold stars.
Then again, you could say Labour did ‘relatively well’ when compared to the lighter-touch regulations proposed by Salmond and Osborne.
On your other point it seems you and others here have missed what Ken is getting at. If you still have a deficit then the only way to give £800+ to every person is to borrow that £4.4bn as now, leaving you with the same deficit you started with.
If you have a smaller deficit it means you borrow less but doesn’t mean you have extra money.
The fact GERS figures are being labelled as inaccurate is odd. Do you disregard what Swinney says when he quotes them or just the bits you don’t like?
#12 by Allan on May 8, 2013 - 7:41 pm
“Sorry Scotchwoman the bankers did – Labour didn’t regulate properly but didn’t create the disaster. ”
The truth is that New Labour, under the guise of Brown’s “Light Touch Regulation” created the enviroment where bankers could do as they pleased, when they pleased. Even ignore crucial debt reports flagging up a problem with your next purchase.
#13 by Keir Liddle on May 8, 2013 - 3:15 pm
On “spent, saved or invested” that does appear to be a contraction until you consider that you buy an investment and that many do so as a means of saving.
That and There is no rule that states £824 must be treated as “one economic unit” as opposed to 8,240 economic units of course.
Also it is perhaps worth noting that although this money is not given to each and every Scot it is by the terms of the above argument taken away by remaining within the UK.
It is also worth noting that the “leaked” document to whit is referred above is… how old now? Was it not a briefing given a year ago? A little disingenuous to suggest Swinney is saying something different in private and public based on a document that is a year old don’t you think?
You had one point Ken – you made it badly and then devolved into the same old tired Labour election/referendum campaign.
The unartful and inelegant strategy of telling people they don’t trust the SNP.
#14 by Duncan Hothersall on May 8, 2013 - 3:22 pm
This is a really important message which at the moment doesn’t seem to be getting out to the wider public. The idea that running a lower deficit than the rest of the UK means we could have money around to spend on other things is such a bold piece of misinformation it is difficult to see how the SNP think they can get away with it. Not to mention the fact that they have it spent several times over.
Ken puts this across a very clear, understated way which is very refreshing to read.
#15 by Juteman on May 8, 2013 - 4:16 pm
Has Labourhame moved?;-)
#16 by James on May 8, 2013 - 4:40 pm
I believe they’ve folded, like Tory Hoose. We’re all about the debate here 😉
#17 by Iain Menzies on May 8, 2013 - 5:16 pm
as a lapsed tory can i just say that toryhoose will not be missed
#18 by Allan on May 8, 2013 - 8:38 pm
There are two variables at play here, none of which is mentioned by Ken (which is not surprising really given what they are…)
Firstly, we don’t really know what I-Scotland’s own debt reduction plan looks like. Indeed, if we are to interprete the SNP’s smoke signals as official policy, they would have a major problem given their preference for high public spending and Transatlantic taxation rates. The second variable being the exact percentage of the UK debt that we will be able to escape the UK with. I rather suspect that discussions over this will run and run with the UK governments keen on pinning the blame on irresponsible “Scottish” banks. This (among other issues) will spike Salmond’s own timetable for Independence coming a mere 18 months after a (unlikely) yes vote.
We are nearly a year into the referendum campaign and there is no sign of there being solid figures proving the fabled strong foundation. All of which confirms that Scotland is not ready for Independence and will not vote for it.