Much has been made of the SNP’s watertight party discipline and the remarkable binding that a shared belief in independence can bring. Last year’s NATO debate is the only significant issue in the recent past that I can think of that has torn the party in two, and even then it was conducted so professionally and respectfully that other parties must surely have looked on in frustrated envy.
As a result, and in order to pull layers off the SNP (and Yes Scotland by association), the press and opposition have had to play a clever game.
Rather than wait in vain for party disarray to fall into their press releases and front pages, a more proactive approach has been taken. A noticeable and increasing trend recently has been for the voices of Yes Scotland’s internal critics to have their arguments complimented and their voices amplified by friendly unionists, resulting in the bigger picture getting lost and unwittingly ending up effectively batting for the other side.
It can arrive via the temptation of having a go at Salmond amongst the ‘other’ parties or the temptation to be ‘reasonable’ for those in the SNP, but the ramifications of a lack of solidarity across Yes Scotland should not be underestimated and the reasons for it happening should be scrutinised.
My concern, pure and simple, is that too many in the pro-Yes camp are getting played by a disingenuously chummy opposition.
Behaviours are influenced to the pavlovian extent that if you criticise the SNP you’re being objective and if you praise them you’re a cybernat, a Yes voice lost in the crowd. It’s a gloriously subtle and highly effective way to damage the Yes cause. If a bigger reaction is gained by being a wee bit controversial, and journalists will give you a slap on the back, then you could be seduced into selling out your side more often than you should.
I know, I fall for it regularly, whether I ultimately catch myself or not, not that I’m a member of any political party any more so there’s precious little risk of damage.
The fairly regular DMs from unionists (from low level activists right up to high level MPs) complimenting my ‘reasonableness’ when I’m critical of the SNP, is some evidence of what is going on out there. I wasn’t naive enough though to fall for one journalist’s ‘friendly’ email offer to run blog posts past him for advice before I posted them, back in my SNP Tactical Voting days. Nice try (not really).
As I say, I’m not a member myself, but it’s quite clear that the phrase that may do the most damage to Yes Scotland over the coming year or so is ‘I’m a member of the SNP but…’.
There are plenty of individuals who do it, I could list off a few across the Nationalist spectrum, but I’ll only name Jim Sillars as a classic example, his dubious contribution is after all at another level altogether.
It’s not clear whether Jim truly believes he’s being helpful to the independence cause when he is seemingly duped into providing juicy headlines such as ‘Sillars warns SNP that Yes campaign is on the ropes‘ and ‘Jim Sillars: SNP a ‘totalitarian’ and ‘intellectually dumb’ party‘. I could continue. As, I sadly suspect, will Jim.
Those genuinely seeking a Yes vote would do well to privately agree to disagree more often than they publicly disagree to agree. This isn’t silencing dissent, it’s simply smart politics to aid a wider cause in the face of an understandably ruthless opposition. Who wants to squabble their way to a 74%- 26% defeat, regardless of how many RTs they get or hits they get on their blog?
The rather brutal oppression of supposed Cybernats is, for me, part of the same game. If some idiot spouts something stupid online, they should be ignored, it should not be front page or even middle page news, and nor should Callum ‘Judge Dredd’ Cashley’s attempts to sort them out. Offence taken in these stories is almost always exaggerated and the message to those ‘reasonable’ Nats cleverly delivered: ‘Look what we ‘ll make of you if you get too wrapped up in this independence business’. What a Cybernat is actually defined as remains conveniently unclear.
Furthermore, the press will have no hesitation to rapidly promote someone to ‘senior activist’ (blogger) or ‘prominent politician’ (councillor) if they can get a good SNP or Yes Scotland rift story into the press. Don’t be an idiot of course, but don’t be afraid to wear your pro-independence opinions on your sleeve either.
Not that this game is limited to individuals. Broadly speaking, if the SNP criticise the Greens for not being Nationalist enough or the Greens criticise the SNP for not being environmentalist enough or the Socialists either feel excluded or exclude themselves, the joint venture of Yes Scotland is simply not going to take off due to prevailing winds.
If I can compare the alliance to a hot air balloon (crack your own Salmond jokes now), the entity only gets off the ground if each side is appropriately balanced and has enough activation energy pulling it upwards. The Yes balloon is a bit wobbly right now, and whether each stakeholder is puffing in the same direction remains to be seen.
A symbolic incentive to work together has already been presented to the Yes alliance though. The Holyrood 2011 election results yielded 50 odd % of the votes for independence-favouring SNP + Greens + Socialists + Margo. These weren’t votes for independence many will be keen to point out, but a majority of voters have voted for independence-minded parties and whose to say they won’t be persuaded do so again?
Criticism is healthy and necessary for both campaigns and Yes Scotland’s greatest risk remains acolytes nodding Salmond into a crushing defeat. However, even though the SNP can just about survive with the fundamentalist vs gradualist tension continuing to bubble under the surface up to Autumn 2014, adding the amplified consternation of internal detractors into the mix will probably stretch Salmond’s big tent politics too far, and ultimately to the unionist’s delight.
Or maybe I’m just being unreasonable…
#1 by Craig Gallagher on February 6, 2013 - 11:24 pm
Great stuff, Jeff. As close to a compelling Yes activist “How To” guide as I’ve seen. I fully expect you to be lambasted as the “arch-Cybernat” or perhaps “Jeff, Lord Cybernat of That Internet” for this though
#2 by Jeff on February 6, 2013 - 11:32 pm
It’s the oddest thing this whole ‘Cybernat’ debate, it really shouldn’t be an issue and yet it just keeps finding a way of cropping up. Not sure i’m a fan of your suggested nicknames btw, but glad you liked the post!
#3 by Craig Gallagher on February 6, 2013 - 11:47 pm
I assure you those nicknames were concocted after some serious procrastination. Personally, I think your post is the epitome of reasonableness but it isn’t alone in that regard. Stephen Noon, to take one high-profile example, regularly writes thoughtful, engaging prose about Scottish Independence, yet the headlines end up saying “NOON SAYS SNP WILL DISBAND AFTER INDEPENDENCE”
So, were this to be a newspaper column, I would expect some spin to be applied by the Yoons. That may yet happen, but the more people who read this the better.
#4 by Jeff on February 6, 2013 - 11:51 pm
It’s sad to say, but the best defence against being such a news story is to not be a member of the SNP (which, again, I am not!)
Agree about the Stephen Noon example. Shocking how that excellent article was turned on its head, though that is slightly different to what I’m getting at in my post here.
#5 by Andrew on February 6, 2013 - 11:38 pm
Interesting piece Jeff.
I agree that Sillers and Gordon Wilson don’t really help the cause but I’m not sure the same can be said for humble Tweeters and bloggers when they disagree. Not least because social media tends to be an echo chamber and more of an internal discussion tool than anything else. I think there is some potential damage from idiotic ‘cybernat’ types (who definitly do exist) but that’s mainly because they may put off activistis or can be used for cheap fodder in the media.
My concern about Yes Scotland is actually that I think it needs to be seen as distinct from the SNP. One example was Noon’s piece in the Scotland on Sunday, it was an excellent piece but also served as a reminder that Yes Scotland’s head strategist used to be Alex Salmonds strategist. Similarly it seems that Yes Scotland is consistently agreeing with SNP lines and welcoming announcements and I’m not sure how many new converts this wins.
That’s not to say that Yes Scotland should be critisising the SNP for the sake of it but I’m not sure that Blair Jenkins should have taken a position on NATO, for example. The reason for this is simple; unless significant numbers of people who dont vote SNP vote YES then the result will be an overwhelming defeat.
As for blogs like Better Nation (which I think is an excellent blog) i’m not sure that disagreements on here can have any negative impact on either the YES or NO campaigns as I assume most readers have the ability to think critically or have already made up their minds regarding the referendum.
#6 by Jeff on February 6, 2013 - 11:48 pm
I guess I’m conflating two points here, ‘cybernats’ (I’m hoping that my understanding of that term fits with yours) and reasonably high level SNP members with an online presence.
First, cybernats only have an impact if they have an audience. My question for people who claim to be offended by them, be they unionists, journalists or otherwise, is why were they reading their guff in the first place if they weren’t going out looking for it?
As for sane SNP members (or wider Yes Scotland activists to a certain extent) with a hearty online presence, which was at least originally meant to be the main point of the post, I think they have a greater responsibility to show some leadership and solidarity with the wider cause. Not all the time, but being seduced into chipping away at their own team by chummy unionists/journalists will have a sapping effect on those who read them, whether it’s in guest columns in the paper or even on blogs or twitter. I’m not going to overstate the impact, but I still strongly believe that it’s at least noteworthy.
And although I agree with you that Yes Scotland and the SNP needs to clearly be distinct, I think the large overlap between Yes Scotland the SNP is unavoidable, particularly given the rather shallow talent pool within the world of Scottish politics generally. (Who are you going to replace Stephen Noon and Kevin Pringle with, for example).
Fully agree on your NATO point, that was a basic error by Blair Jenkins. Burdzeyeview had a genuinely great post nailing this very point last week.
#7 by Andrew on February 7, 2013 - 12:41 am
Thanks for the link it was an excellent piece.
The overlap is inevitable, but I would hope moves are made to reduce it where possible. I think it’s more inevitable in these relatively early days so I have some element of confiendence that it will be reduced closer to the big day. In Noon’s case I liked the piece but did find it strange for Yes Scotland’s head strategist to effectively be taking a position on the internal politics of the SNP (even if that used to be his job) Having said that, the piece was very good.
To be honest I’d never really seen the whole ‘cybernat’ phenomena until I joined Twitter, but you’re right they’re generally easy to avoid, unless you’re a mischief making journalist who wants a quick story.
On the point of sane SNP members/ independence supporters I agree that there can be an impact. However I think the constructive criticism engaged in by bloggers like yourself or Kate Higgins are generally beneficial for the movement… Jim Sillers, not so much…
#8 by Iain Menzies on February 7, 2013 - 1:04 am
On ‘cybernats’, I’ve joined twitter three or four times….those three or four accounts may still be there, i have no idea tho, and i dont think i ever did more than one or two tweets or follow more than a couple of people for all of a half hour. So i cant comment on the cybernat tendency on twitter.
What is striking is the extent to which a number of nationalists are so agressive to people online. There are people who have commented on here that I think are, to say the least pretty ungenerous to fellow nats that dont toe the party line. And thats before you get to the abject bile that gets hurled at unionists in comment sections. Just look at the comments after anything that Alan Cochrane puts on the telegraph site. You may not agree with what he says but by god theres a way to disagree!
I think that does put people off the yes cause. Ive been political for as long as i can remember, but when i was at uni i never really got involved in student politics. Untill i was tricked into being on our SRC….
But i gave one helluva body swerve to the political societies at uni. Now some of the people that were in them were nice, but to be frank, you have to be a bit nuts to join a student political society.
#9 by Jeff on February 7, 2013 - 7:58 am
I was going to mention the comments section of online papers as they seem to have no redeeming features. Maybe they make companies some advertising revenue but giving idiots an airing might again be a way of clipping the wings of pro-independence individuals who don’t want to be tarred by association. Just a thought. Again though, really quite easily ignored.
#10 by Iain Menzies on February 7, 2013 - 9:36 am
i never get more than 5 or 6 comments into a comment section on an article on, well pretty much anything. Unless its a film review by robbie collin on the telegraph and then its only cos i cant stand pretty much anything that he writes and like to see other agree with me….
But what gets me aint the cybernat tendency on there (and i dont equate cybernat with snp member) but its the lack of reasonable nationslists talling the muppets that they are muppets.
I disagree with the politics of pretty much every contributer to better nation…but i think when i comment i engage constructivly (most of the time). I dont see a willingness from many nationalists to engage construtively with unionists.
#11 by Doug Daniel on February 7, 2013 - 10:23 am
“Just look at the comments after anything that Alan Cochrane puts on the telegraph site. You may not agree with what he says but by god theres a way to disagree!”
Come on Iain, talk about being selective! The sort of bile that gets posted by unionists in the Scotsman and BBC comments sections are at least equal, if not worse, than that posted by so-called “cybernats”. Some of that stuff is genuinely offensive, made all the more galling when the BBC decides to choose them as “Editor’s Picks”!
If the media would only stop pretending this is some phenomenon peculiar to pro-indy commentators – rather than something that happens on every side of every debate on the internet – then it might not be quite so bad. But the demonisation of one side means the other side feels it has a licence to call Salmond a “fat Nazi dictator” or whatever with impunity – made worse by the fact they see elected (and unelected) politicians doing it!
#12 by Peter A Bell on February 6, 2013 - 11:51 pm
I don’t think you are being unreasonable at all. I have frequently been moved to comment on the eagerness with which some supposedly pro-independence voices embrace the cosy consensus of the unionist media. Likewise, all too many SNP party members or supporters seem ready to buy into any prejudiced comment posing as analysis which finds Alex Salmond or some member of his team wanting in one way or another.
If some story in The Scotsman or The Herald says that Salmond has made a mistake or is under pressure or is on the back foot, a small but vociferous clique among party or non-party nationalists can be found queueing up to nod in pseudo-sage agreement. It’s almost as if it is fashionable to be critical of the SNP leadership. And the urge to be trendy is so powerful that little or no thought is given to how justified the criticism is, far less how much unnecessary damage is being done.
Coincidentally, I referred to one of the worst culprits in another comment that fell foul of this site’s censors. This is an individual who has been embraced by the mainstream media and now seems somewhat over-ready to keep in tight with their new best pals. They will not be found challenging that cosy consensus.
The affirmation that comes from being accepted by “media professionals”, the satisfaction of being quoted by established journalists and the warm glow of the TV lights may explain why this particular individual’s head has been turned. It is less easy to understand why others relish sniping at the SNP and Yes Scotland as much as they do.
Of one thing I’m certain, though. Most of it is folly rather than malice. An unthinking tendency to accept the perspective offered by conventional authority. And a sad failure of independent, analytical thinking.
Taking Alex Salmond as an example – here we have a man who is, by general agreement and according to all evidence, one of the most astute political operators around. And yet all it takes is for one “big name” to say he’s blundered in some way and we have people setting aside everything they know about him in order to join in the criticism.
There’s an interesting psychological study in there somewhere.
#13 by An Duine Gruamach on February 7, 2013 - 12:28 am
I suspect that Mr. Sillars will still be writing his regular “it’s all gone so very wrong” piece for the Scotsman on the day the union flag is lowered for the last time outside Holyrood.
#14 by Calum W on February 7, 2013 - 12:51 am
You’re absolutely right, I was at a university independence debate this evening and one of the audience (on the no camp obviously) used the Sillars’ article to attack the yes campaign, and it is a genuine worry because we really need to be a united front if we’re going to win this. It’s the same with the cybernats issue – of course there are trolls on twitter, of all stripes, but by recognising this as somehow an SNP-specific problem (and I think I’m maybe guilty of doing this myself sometimes) we’re publicly alienating a large number of yes supporters and buying into a critical narrative of ourselves.
There are so many great aspects of the independence movement, so many fantastic people I’ve met so far from different political backgrounds and parties, and I just feel it would be a tragedy if we let this opportunity go to waste because we spent the whole time bickering.
#15 by Iain Menzies on February 7, 2013 - 1:21 am
Ive just read this. Ive just pondered this. And now im laughing.
Why am I laughing? cos if i dont then im gonna cry.
This wouldnt have had this effect if i hadnt finished reading Peter Hennessy’s ‘The Secret State’ last night. There is a quotation in it that i think pretty much tells us how to make just about everything about our politics better.
I think it goes against everything you just posted. And that you posted on a blog called better nation.
“…politicians could play it straight.Journalists could play it fair.Parties could resist the rise of a political class. Ministers could make sure that cabinet Government works.MP’s could decide that Parliament matters (and clean up their expenses!) Interest groups could say what would have less if they are to have more. Civil Servants could tell truth to power. Governments could promise less and perform more. Intellectuals could abandon their ‘mechanical snigger’ as Orwell called it. Social scientists could start writing in good plain English. The blogosphere could exchange rant for reason. Electors could decide to become critical citizens.”
But then this was said by a Labour MP….i expect many people will discount it on that basis alone.
#16 by Colin on February 7, 2013 - 8:29 am
Excelllent post. The only caveat I would add regarding the ‘cybernat’ angle is that bear in mind its a very small percentage of the population having these twitter spats. Your average person in the street doesnt care/is not geeky enough to even hear about most of this nonsense.
Although social media is undoubtedly part of the strategy, a yes vote will be won on the doorsteps, not online.
#17 by Doug Daniel on February 7, 2013 - 10:08 am
Spot on, Jeff. It’s a phenomenon I’ve been commenting on recently elsewhere, so it’s good to see someone actually writing a blog about it, especially someone who is sometimes embraced as a “reasonable” indy blogger! There’s a whole load of psychology behind it, in fact you could devote a whole chapter to it in a book about blogging, so it’s difficult to squeeze everything into a comment without skipping over some of the subtleties that lead to it.
It seems that for some people, the most prestigious praise that can be bestowed upon them is not “that was really well-written” or “I agree with every word”, but rather “wow, you’re so non-partisan!” Needless to say, such praise is rarely going to come from people on “your” side. It’s easy to see how people get themselves into such positions, as it’s tempting to think that praise from someone who generally disagrees with you is more significant than praise from someone on your own side – a case of “wow, it must be good if you’re praising it” against “well thanks, but to be fair you would say that, since we’re on the same side.” As you say, it’s something you have to watch out for, and that’s particularly true if the praise is coming from a journalist.
I think some people perhaps forget why it is they started blogging in the first place, and fall into the trap of writing what they think “respected” or “reasonable” commentators will praise them for, rather than what will truly help their cause. Folk who blog in their spare time are not journalists (much less broadcast journalists who are paid to supposedly be non-biased), and therefore have absolutely no reason to try and avoid being “partisan”. But let’s face it, many (most?) bloggers harbour a secret desire to be seen as “proper” journalists, or even to be plucked from obscurity and put in the pages of the papers or on the TV screen, so it’s easy to inflate their egos with praise about their articles which criticise their own side, and obtain the Pavlovian response of increasing the number and regularity of those same articles.
The biggest irony of blogging is that, despite a lot of it centring around criticising the media, most bloggers will bite the arm off any media organ that asks them to write or speak for them. Unfortunately, some bloggers take this to mean that they’ve entered blogging nirvana, and start thinking their opinions are special because they’ve been on the TV or in the paper – and when they get criticised by their own side, they convince themselves that “people don’t like it that I’m not afraid to speak out”. The reality is that, like in music, mainstream acceptance tends to mean you’ve simply become bland enough to be inoffensive to most people, rather than being particularly brilliant or insightful. Or at the very least, continuous mainstream acceptance tends to lead to this – it is very possible to have a fleeting dalliance with the mainstream media, only to be dumped again when it becomes obvious you’re not going to behave as required.
I can think of one prominent blogger in particular who was on the BBC a few times when he wrote some blogs critical of the Scottish Government, but has not been seen since, presumably because “SNP blogger criticises SNP” fits their narrative far better than “pro-indy blogger criticises No campaign”, despite the quality of his writing remaining consistently high (and kudos to him for not falling into the trap). On the other hand, there is one prominent Labour blogger who has a history of making outrageous statements online against Alex Salmond, yet is welcomed on the BBC with open arms.
Paranoid? Moi?
#18 by Chris on February 7, 2013 - 10:55 am
This is interesting. I’d restrict the terms cybernat to those posting online abuse to anyone who disagrees with independence. Now I know that both sides do this, but the pro-independence side appear much more vociferous and abusive. Jeff, Doug, etc. do not fall into that camp. The people who call their opponents traitors, quislings, etc. do and so do the people who play the man not the ball. “You’re just a tory, Lie Dumb, Zanu Liebore quisling b******d and your opinion counts for nothing.” etc.
And it can be avoided e.g. by ignoring the comments section in newspapers (unless you delight in reading the inner thoughts of UKIP and SNP supporters) but people can come flooding into pieces you write.
As for Jim Sillars. There are two things going on. One of it is obviously personal: he is settling scores. As one of his opponents I find it highly amusing but I can see he is like Frank Field for Labour: you’d wish he would just go and join another party where he clearly belongs.
The second Sillars’ thing is that he has a point, and he is getting his ‘I told you so’ in early. He can see the Yes campaign is a flop and his analysis is spot on. The referendum was called because of the SNP majority in Holyrood, not because they had won the hearts and minds of the Scottish People. Independence is clearly not our ‘settled will’.
The failure to win hearts and minds then leads to this long campaign to simultaneously present independence as both not much change and a fantastic opportunity. Rowing back on the pound, the monarchy, NATO is a sign that the whole independence movement rests on a massive gamble without the hard work having been done for years. Its failure is very likely to remove the chances of independence for about 30 years. As a nationalist, SIllars is right to point out that the emperor has no clothes.
However Jeff is correct that now the referendum has been called it really would be in Sillars’ interest to hold his piece and throw his penny in. But I suspect his personal animosity will preclude that.
#19 by Tom on February 7, 2013 - 11:55 am
Hmmm… Yes, yes I’m sure you are right, the Yes campaign is a flop and the emperor has no clothes. Now stand aside, we have a campaign to conduct and defeatism will get us nowhere.
#20 by Doug Daniel on February 7, 2013 - 12:58 pm
“Now I know that both sides do this, but the pro-independence side appear much more vociferous and abusive.”
They only appear to be more abusive because a) it’s the only abuse that gets highlighted by the press, and b) as someone who favours the union, you naturally have a higher threshold when it comes to comments that slag off independence supporters. Just as I, being someone who favours independence, have a higher threshold when it comes to people slagging off the union and its supporters. Because no matter what language is being used, in both cases we agree with their underlying point – “union/independence bad, independence/union good.”
Really, the “Zanu Liebore, Quisling, Traitor” type stuff is actually far less prevalent than “Scottish Nazi Party”, “Nationalist socialists”, “Salmond the fat dictator”, “you just hate the English”, “subsidy junkies” type stuff. It just depends where you’re looking.
http://raymcrobbie.com/2012/10/15/alex-salmond-fan-club/
The bile linked to in that post is the direct result of the sort of things that Foulkes, MacShane, Sarwar and Davidson come out with. And that’s the problem – when you have elected and unelected politicians calling someone a dictator or a liar, it seems less outrageous when random plebs on the internet do it, and the bar is raised for the point at which it is decided that they’ve gone too far.
#21 by Commenter on February 7, 2013 - 12:59 pm
“The people who call their opponents traitors, quislings”
There’s plenty of examples of this sort of ad hominem directed at the SNP if one has the fairness to look for it. And it’s often by elected officials and journalists in national (English) newspapers, rather than nobodies on twitter.
#22 by Albalha on February 7, 2013 - 12:23 pm
I’m increasingly becoming irked at the “let’s have an in depth debate and analysis about the future political shape of an independent Scotland”, by many who’ll be voting YES, on blogs etc.
The call to get it all out there now …what’s the point? Let’s get a YES vote, then they’ll be plenty of time to discuss before the proposed 2016 election.
And Twitter, what’s there to say, not a fan myself, but it does seem to get a lot of attention and I suppose given the limitation on expression it’s bound to end up, often being provocative and offensive.
#23 by James Coleman on February 7, 2013 - 1:11 pm
I am truly amazed at the tone of some of the comments made under this article. Most of them seem to be from the ‘nice’ side of the YES campaign, where the people who write seem to think that Independence will be won if we all just sit down and write nice reasoned arguments for and against Independence, and we all remain friends in the process.
And some of you seem to have been ‘owned’ by the Media vis a vis the cybernat debate since you erroneously believe that they write more vile comments than the unitrolls on the other side. You are WRONG. In fact the reverse is the case. I visit a number of sites on line and I can assure you that most comments made by Cybernats are very well reasoned and presented, but they are then viciously attacked in large numbers by the unitrolls on the other side.
The Unionist media has tried to make the term Cybernat an insult because they are very unhappy at losing their monopoly on news and comment. They do not like the fact that their articles against the SNP now come under intense scrutiny by YES supporters who show up clearly the lies and misinformation given. Now, Cybernat, and I am one, has become a badge of honour amongst YES supporters on the Internet.
#24 by Albalha on February 7, 2013 - 1:23 pm
Good grief, seems we agree on something .,….. that’s me on the twee side as well.
Having said that, as well as the level of premature navel gazing it seems people look around to be ‘offended’.
#25 by Doug Daniel on February 7, 2013 - 3:55 pm
“Most of them seem to be from the ‘nice’ side of the YES campaign, where the people who write seem to think that Independence will be won if we all just sit down and write nice reasoned arguments for and against Independence, and we all remain friends in the process.”
I really don’t understand how you reach that conclusion, unless you’re mistaking Iain and Chris for Yes supporters. The rest of us are almost unanimous in saying we wholeheartedly agree with Jeff’s article – and I’m fairly sure you won’t find either Peter or myself, for instance, being described as being from the “nice” side of the Yes campaign any time soon!
#26 by Peter A Bell on February 7, 2013 - 4:11 pm
Heaven forfend!
#27 by James Coleman on February 7, 2013 - 4:26 pm
Doug
I WAS mistaking some No people as YES supporters because I didn’t read their posts closely. And I certainly don’t include you or Peter in the ‘nice’ side. You and he are advocates of the kind we need to hear more from off blog and in mainstream. Albalha who was? on the nice side is becoming more robust too.
#28 by Albalha on February 7, 2013 - 6:35 pm
You see you’ve to be careful of underestimating a perceived soft underbelly for anything less than hard boiled! Think I was judged on my dislike of Braveheart on the grounds of cinematic snottiness.
And addressing the main point of the post tonight’s QT won’t be pleasant. There’s Brian Souter, clearly they’ll discuss the gay marriage vote, and I really don’t understand why it’s not an SNP MP …. who could clearly talk to their reasons for not voting and point out that 7 Scottish Labour MPs voted against.
I’ll be watching through closed fingers.
#29 by Doug Daniel on February 8, 2013 - 10:47 am
Phew! I’ll refrain from turning up my argument mode to “incoherent ranting” then!
#30 by Commenter on February 7, 2013 - 5:03 pm
How about the Rigorous but Cuddly side?
#31 by JPJ2 on February 7, 2013 - 2:49 pm
James Coleman is correct 🙂
#32 by Michael on February 7, 2013 - 3:18 pm
Couldn’t agree more, James Coleman. Sillars says stuff that nobody cares about. Most SNP voters and most Yes voters are listening to Real Radio, reading the Sun and watching Scotland Tonight. Most wouldn’t read the Scotsman if they were given it for free. It’s all an utter irrelevance. What matters is the ‘offer’ and the degree to which it is sufficiently attractive to voters to persuade them to vote Yes. In huge swathes of urban Scotland it won’t take much. The Herald and Scotsman, their columnists and the witterings of said folk on Newsnicht reach only a tiny percentage of voters.