I enjoyed reading Alan Cochrane’s recent account of his trials and tribulations with Scottish bank notes down here in England. The crux of his issue has been present for decades, non-Scots don’t always recognise and/or accept Scottish banknotes. Incidentally, far from partaking in his stated practise of ensuring one has English banknotes before heading south, I always make sure that I get a good £250 of Clydesdale, RBS or HBOS notes whenever I am up in Edinburgh for a visit, but that’s just cos I like a good fist-free barney over the till.
My experience is that the vast majority of sales people here in London accept Scottish notes with little more than a second glance and raised eyebrow and, contrary to Mr Cochrane’s view, it is the homegrown Brits who have the biggest problem rather than sales staff from abroad. Unfortunately for me, incidents are few and far between, though this is good news for people who aren’t quite so ornery. However, if there is a problem here, surely there is one simple solution – get rid of Scottish banknotes and standardise the currency that we spend on this island.
Let’s be honest, where confusion reigns, it is generally worthwhile to stamp it out. If we are one country with one central bank, then why not just have one set of banknotes? Team GBP, if you will.
Indeed, from a political perspective this makes perfect sense for Cameron and Osborne. De-Scottishifying Scotland has its upsides with 2014 on the horizon. The more we feel a part of the rest of the United Kingdom, the more easily it will be to vote Yes to it, similar to why all this supra-national, positive Olympics fervour, I now grudgingly admit, is a real body blow for the SNP. Sure, there’d be plenty of grumbling if Scottish notes were discontinued, but it’s not exactly on a par with the old banning bagpipes of yesteryear. There is a perfectly valid logic behind the suggestion that even UK-loving Alan Cochrane has seemingly failed to grasp, ending unnecessary confusion. Not only that, many foreign exchange desks will give you a lower currency rate for a Scottish note than they would for Bank of England note. It’s a no-brainer really.
And is there an upside for the SNP here? Well, possibly. Scotland enjoys its many distinctly Scottish traditions, to such an extent that we are perhaps satisfied enough with our identity, culture and practices that independence feels unnecessary. Perhaps pushing Scotland deeper into the bosom of Britishness will increase resistance and foster a desire to make that Scottish stamp even more bolder.
Either way, Scotland inside the UK perhaps has to accept that it can’t always have its Tunnock’s teacake and eat it. The only Scottish pound should be an independent Scotland’s Scottish pound.
#1 by JohnMcdonaldish on August 10, 2012 - 10:00 am
Aye, very funny.
#2 by Indy on August 10, 2012 - 10:04 am
I think you would need to make a calculation as to how much it would cost to do that – to withdraw all notes currently circulating and reissue a new one – and how the logictics would work. And then balance that against the likelihood that in twenty years or so we may not be using banknotes very much at all. Then decide if it was worth the hassle. I would suspect not. I don’t think we’ll ever completely stop using banknotes but I think we will use them less and less frequently so is it really such a major issue that it requires such drastic action?
#3 by Jeff on August 10, 2012 - 10:09 am
You wouldn’t have to withdraw the notes immediately, just do so overtime. It should be very straightforward, almost precisely the same as when a new £20 or £5 note is issued by the Bank of England.
I also wouldn’t consider the action ‘drastic’, just a simple standardisation that makes everybody’s lives easier, though takes a little colour out of them I grant thee.
#4 by Indy on August 10, 2012 - 2:44 pm
Yes but how long would that take? Cos it’s not just one note – it would be all of them. And would it really be worth the hassle for the sake of what probably amounts to problems with less than 0.5 per cent of transactions? That’s a totally made up figure obviously but it’s probably right.
#5 by Jeff on August 10, 2012 - 3:01 pm
If you think how quickly money is turned over from ATM to bank account deposits, I don’t think that even a 6 month timeframe would be too problematic.
And I really don’t agree that there’s much hassle involved, even for a relatively minor problem.
“That’s a totally made up figure obviously but it’s probably right.” < - - - Loving this
#6 by Indy on August 10, 2012 - 6:34 pm
Lol (sorry know you don’t like them). How would you work it out? You would need to work out how many transactions involving banknotes issued by Scottish banks took place on a yearly basis. Probably someone does have that information. And then work out in what proportion of those transactions the money was either initially or finally refused because the banknotes were Scottish. Seriously, it couldn’t be above 0.5pc. It has only ever happened to me twice despite a period of a decade of living in London and being up and down on a regular basis with Scottish banknotes in tow.
As they say in Essex leave it alone, it ain’t worf it.
#7 by Jeff on August 10, 2012 - 6:45 pm
You wouldn’t have to do that calculation at all, just let it be known that certain notes would be invalid after a certain date and people will ensure their notes are out of circulation by then. Banks, for their part, would get stocked up with Bank of England notes. Dead easy.
And you’re correct, I don’t like LOLs, they tend to be disrespectful.
#8 by Indy on August 10, 2012 - 11:55 pm
That’s not my point. My point is whether it is worth the hassle of reissuing the vast majority of banknotes in Scotland to solve what is a very minor problem really.
#9 by Colin on August 10, 2012 - 10:05 am
A wonderfully baiting piece!
If you genuinely think that the withdrawl of Scottish bank notes would only cause ‘grumbling’ then you have been in London too long 🙂
#10 by Jeff on August 10, 2012 - 10:16 am
But you would agree Colin that there are two convincing and perfectly logical reasons to just adopt Bank of England notes, yes? To avoid cross –border confusion and to ensure better exchange rates abroad for all Sterling currency. Does ‘tradition’ really beat those arguments?
#11 by Commenter on August 10, 2012 - 10:56 am
two convincing and perfectly logical reasons
Luckily, unlike some people I recognise my irrational side so can defend Scottish notes on those grounds. I don’t know what the “I am voting yes on strictly cold calculated grounds because I am so politically evolved and there isn’t a nationalist bone in my body” people can say to it though.
#12 by Colin on August 10, 2012 - 11:27 am
I completely take your point from a practical angle, but in reality this would be an absolute PR disaster for the UK Govt.
#13 by James on August 10, 2012 - 10:06 am
I certainly want to see the pound mentioned at the end there..
#14 by Commenter on August 10, 2012 - 10:54 am
You could argue that Scottish notes are part of the fig leaf of self delusion (that’s a thing, right?) that help us Jocks pretend that we’re not a region of Greater Engl… Britain. What if they renamed the BoE to the BoTeamGB though. Then we couldn’t complain – drat.
Speaking of delusional figleaf:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/bloggers/when-scots-abroad-have-to-bear-the-cross-of-being-english.2012088113
#15 by Ken on August 10, 2012 - 11:00 am
“all this supra-national, positive Olympics fervour, I now grudgingly admit, is a real body blow for the SNP”
It’s 2 years away. 6-8 weeks after any ‘Winners Parade’ is finished, the positive vibe will be a distant memory and everyone will go back to worrying about the deficit, AAA rating, the Eurozone crisis, the unemployment levels, potential strikes, cuts and why sports can’t get more investment despite the success, coalition tensions and so forth. Doom and gloom will be restored as normal.
#16 by Jeff on August 10, 2012 - 12:14 pm
WW2 was 70 years ago but it still gives many Scots a gooey pro-UK feeling. I see no reason why the London Olympics won’t do the same a mere 2 years hence.
Barcelona and Sydney to name but two former Olympic cities still retain that post-Olympic feel-good buzz. London won’t be different.
#17 by Commenter on August 10, 2012 - 12:51 pm
Agree. And the No campaign can easily make a broadcast of the TeamGB highlights to get everyone back in the mood.
#18 by Ken on August 10, 2012 - 1:36 pm
It’s a cracking city, but Barcelona retains its feel good buzz because it’s Barcelona, not because of the ’92 Olympics. Having the Olympics has hardly killed off the Catalan sense of nationhood either has it?
You might have a point with Sydney if Australia was going through a similar process of increasing divergent and internal splitting of political powers and not tying to actively reconcile their nation with their attitude towards the Aboriginals… or indeed, if the Olympics were held in Glasgow or Edinburgh, not London.
A mere 2 years hence? “A week is a long time in politics”, nevermind 2 years.
#19 by Indy on August 12, 2012 - 2:26 pm
I don’t want to be picky but that comparison between WW2 and the Olympics has kind of been bugging me. I suppose it depends on your age but as someone whose grandparents – and all the rest of my family in that generation – went through the war, gooey doesn’t really come into it. Pride, yes, but also the memory of loss and suffering and, in some cases, survivor’s guilt.
I suppose the further away you get from it the more rosey it becomes. The reality for those who lived it was a bit more bloody.
#20 by Alasdair Frew-Bell on August 10, 2012 - 11:06 am
Hmmm! also ditch that weird old fossil of the uncool and nonBrit, Scotch law, and introduce compulsary elocution lessons to smooth seamless intercommunication. The dialect of Towie being normative for the purpose. A really really high speed rail link between Scotland, sorry Norf Bri’un, and the nation’s supreme capital Lahndun to facilitate an easy commute to service its economy. With all that waste land, hills, locks and stuff, plenty of opportunity for the locals to engage in refuse recyling…..or windfarming or wotevah…except the bits set aside for flogging off to oligarchs, potentates and other rich blokes who fancy a bit of livin it large….so Go on vote NO, Let ya be’as do ve finkin!
#21 by Andrew Seale on August 10, 2012 - 11:21 am
It does appear that the issue of Scottish notes is one where emotions are more important than efficiency in deciding a persons stance on the issue.
At a practical level, it would make sense to have standard notes throughout the United Kingdom, there is no economic case to be made for different notes with no variation in exchange rate. However, the fact that the system has operated for so long without causing major problems, notwithstanding the occassional complaint when a Scot can’t buy a pint in London, suggests that any potential gains are small.
However, I have to disagree with your reading of the political consequences;
“Indeed, from a political perspective this makes perfect sense for Cameron and Osborne. De-Scottishifying Scotland has its upsides with 2014 on the horizon.”
For Cameron or Osbourne to suggest this would be met with a strong negative reaction. Nothing would upset Scottish sensitivities as much as two Tory’s trying to get rid of our notes. It’s hardly a huge issue that is going to win massive support for the Government south of the border, and I’d suggest that the consequences for 2014 would not be to bind Scots to the UK and make us feel more British, but to turn more towards voting yes in defiance of London. How long would it take for the Sun to run a ‘save our bank notes’ campaign?
Neglibile efficiency gains, but significant political consequences in Scotland. That’s why no one will suggest this, especially in the run up to the referendum.
#22 by Jeff on August 10, 2012 - 12:12 pm
I follow your logic Andrew, and do agree with it up to a point, but the Scottish regiments were realigned without much fuss and I would suggest that there is considerably more emotional attachment there than there is to bank notes. As was mentioned in another comment, who really notices what type of bank note they are handing over at the counter these days? I really think that the “strong negative reaction” is overstated, but neither of us would know until that moment was upon us I suppose. The public, either side of the border, are generally quite obedient when it comes to such things and will go with whatever’s easier (e.g. rejection of AV, extension of parliament terms to 5 years, even the furore of the top-down restructure of the NHS will die down before too long if it hasn’t already)
Incidentally, you don’t see many pound notes any more, I can’t remember much of a fuss when they were wound down (though they are still technically in circulation), despite Scots supposedly being proud of them. I really do think it’d be the same for Scottish notes; but I do agree that it might not be worth the risk given, as you say, efficiencies would be minimal.
Maybe after the referendum it’ll get pushed through.
#23 by Tris on August 10, 2012 - 11:27 am
Perhaps the renaming of the Bank of England as the Bank of the United Kingdom, and issuing bank notes with that annotation, would solve all the problems without us having to carry around notes with the name of another country on them.
We are, whether we like it or not, part of the UK; we aren’t actually (although it often feels that we are) a part of England.
Our current situation is akin to the Federal Reserve being called the Bank of New York, and people in Alaska and Hawaii and Nevada being forced to accept it as their own currency.
I’m guessing that you’re pulling our legs here Jeff, but I recall a while ago, when Alistair Darling was the finance minister, that he was obliged to call off the withdrawal of the right of Scottish Banks to issue their own currency, given the bad feeing that it caused and campaigns that were raised against his moves (presumably a way of saving money).
I was in parliament when the noble and right honourable mad wee baron ffloulkes ranted in favour of Mr Darling’s proposals, opening his wallet and withdrawing Euro notes, waving them wildly at the first minister and telling the assembled members how Mr Salmond would have the Euro as the currency of Scotland, spittle flying around him, his passion for the English pound knowing no ends.
Like you, I always take Scottish money to England with me. I rarely have problems and absolutely refuse to argue with anyone about it, but I did on one occasion in a small supermarket point out that they could take my money, or they could put all the items I’d bought back on the shelves.
#24 by Allan on August 11, 2012 - 12:51 am
Ah, but Ffloulkes was right though. Salmond & co would take I-Scotland into the EU without a sniff of a referendum, and into the Euro as well had the Euro-crisis not given him cause to think twice.
Pity he doesn’t think twice about taking I-Scotland into the EU…
#25 by Iain Menzies on August 10, 2012 - 11:43 am
Depending on how it was done i dont think it would make all that much difference to people, i mean seriously who pays that much attention to the notes they get out of an ATM?
That being said i have avoided ATM’s from the Bank of Scotland and Clydesdale Bank in preference to one that will give me English notes or RBS notes on account of i really dont like BoS and CB notes, they be horrid.
SO maybe we could restrict the right to issue to just RBS? (by the way i bank with HBOS for my sins).
That being said i would kidnap your granny and ransom her for an RBS one pound note…..but thats just me….(he types while taking a sip of coffee from his one pound not mug (true story)).
Slightly more seriously, few years back when i worked in BHS (how unionist is that) we got a meeting with our security guy warning us not to accept Ulster Bank (i think) notes. Untill that moment i had no idea that Irish Banks could issue notes as well as Scottish Banks. To the best of my knowledge i have never seen an irish bank note before or since then. And that was with working in the Union bars in dundee uni (student population 99% irish (or so it seemed at times)).
The problem for the SNP is i think embodied by the hwole issue of bank notes in the UK. They are all, fundamentally the same. Its just we dont all recognise them….or sometimes think they are all as same as the others (see above for my feelings on BoS notes). But when it comes down to it…a pound is a pound.
#26 by KBW on August 10, 2012 - 11:48 am
” positive Olympics fervour, I now grudgingly admit, is a real body blow for the SNP.”
On the contrary what it has shown Scotland is how successful we can be if we fund our own athletes and field our own teams under the Saltire. If Hong Kong can field their own team why not Scotland. The opening ceremony technically was good, but it did highlight the fact that GB is England in the minds of the metropolitan set, which is why the SNP are so successful. The chauvinistic politicising of these games by small minded politicians has been shameful and disgusting. Simon Johnston’s article on the Telegraph regarding Chris Hoy is just a pack of disgraceful lies and propaganda. Cochrane is an insane Salmond stalker and I believe he made up the story about the Scottish Pound as someone pointed out to him that the bus number he mentioned does not run where he said it does. Incidentally have you seen any where in all the pictures of Chris Hoys magnificent efforts the picture of his father displaying the banner “The Real MacHoy” with the Saltire in each corner? It has been totally ignored, the only time it was seen was in the live shots post race. The SNP will have gained enormous traction from the disgusting British National parochial London flag waving around these games, that failed to include Northern Ireland as they named Team GB. Your time in London has infected you, get out before it is to late.
#27 by Jeff on August 10, 2012 - 12:12 pm
I really do think you’re deluding yourself KBW if you believe most Scots are thinking this way in between all the ‘we got another gold!’ moments.
I didn’t know Hong Kong had its own team.
#28 by Alasdair Stirling on August 11, 2012 - 4:21 pm
I have to say, I am in Argyll and I have seen nothing of the flag waving fervour here that I seen on the television happening in England. I know that Argyll is now very much an SNP heartland, but suspect that you may be being influenced by the reaction in London and assuming that the same thing is happening up North.
#29 by Cath on August 10, 2012 - 12:40 pm
I have to admit the Olympics have brought an unexpected feel-good factor. After months of what felt like jingoistic, enforced Union jack waving with the Jubilee and Olympic torch relay. All of that was heavily politicised, with union Jacks handed out, then propaganda like, “mostly Union Jacks being flown, not Saltires; this proves Scotland will vote no” etc, etc. Very dreary stuff that made me want to bash my head off a wall. So I was dreading the Olympics. It’s been good though, because it’s all worked well, there’s been a good atmosphere, and it’s been mostly focussed on the sports people and their achievements. It only falls down where, again, people try to politicise it.
As soon as I hear things like “this will damage the SNP and independence”, I go back to wanting to bash my head on a wall. Fact is, it’s perfectly possibly to be Scottish and British and passionately support athletes from England, Scotland, Wales, even from other countries if you happen to prefer that. And yet still want political independence. To deny that is to suggest anyone who’s pro independence must also be anti-English. I find that deeply offensive, especially as I’m half English and quite like my mother, family and friends down there.
#30 by Jeff on August 10, 2012 - 12:46 pm
Good points Cath. I think the point isn’t so much that the Olympics will turn former pro-independence people into pro-UK No-voters, but rather the considerable number of No and floating voters that Yes Scotland need to win round in order to win the referendum will move closer to voting No and/or be entrenched in their views as a result of the Olympics.
While I agree that an English person being able to ride a bike fast or jump long should have no bearing on whether Scotland should arrange its own affairs, that’s simply not the world we live in and it looks likely that there will be an effect, at least in the short term.
Whether the Commonwealth games can counter, reverse or even beat that effect through Team Scotland remains to be seen.
Also, one last point, a long overdue decent, public debate over what independence would mean in practise for real people would quickly dilute any positive or negative impact sporting events have on the referendum result. In that debate’s absence however, these things are important.
#31 by Alasdair Frew-Bell on August 10, 2012 - 1:19 pm
It’s that peculiarity among certain Scots for sentimental attachment to things British that I can’t get my head around. The monarchy, the commonwealth, the English language, and all the olympic brouhaha stir no emotions. We have our own, oft neglected, cultural heritage, so lets start reaquainting ourselves with its true riches and discard the fake, the bogus, the artifice of the confected British patrimony. Keeping the banknotes is a constant visual reminder of our distinctiveness in this anglo-americanized world.
#32 by Iain Menzies on August 10, 2012 - 4:14 pm
Yeah that would be the anglo-american world that Scots (Adam Smith, David Hume) had NOTHING to do with the creating of.
Or the British History and culture that scots have had NOTHING to do with creating (see every scot born since about 1670).
#33 by Alasdair Stirling on August 11, 2012 - 3:52 pm
Jeff: I have seen Olympics come and go, and whatever feelings each individual event generates those feelings last no more then a couple of weeks once the show is over. The Olympics (and whatever GB goodwill they have generated) will be completely forgotten this time next month. I may be a cynic, but people move on really fast and their resolve does not last.
#34 by Jeff on August 12, 2012 - 5:58 pm
Given your youthful photo there Alasdair I am presuming that you haven’t seen a home GB Olympics come or go, other than this one. That may (or may not) be a crucial factor for the longevity of this unmistakable feel good GB factor, but you surely have to accept it’s unknown at this stage…
#35 by Paul on August 10, 2012 - 1:47 pm
I was subjected to monetary racism , and I think it is the taxi drivers of East Anglia that need to change – perhaps if that area of England left the 1950s it might help.
#36 by Andrew Seale on August 10, 2012 - 2:25 pm
Jeff – Interesting points regarding the regiments, AV, 5 year parliaments and the NHS, but I think we might find that money is a different proposition altogether.
While some people feel an incredibly strong attachment to the regiments, one which would undoubtedly outweigh any emotional attachment to Scottish bank notes, this was effectively a vocal minority. Those who served, and those who had family or friends who served. I would suggest that most people on the street, when asked, would be supportive of the attempts to preserve the identity, but for the vast majority of the population this was an issue that was only discussed when someone asked them directly.
With regard to the proposed AV voting system, a sizeable chunk of the population don’t bother to vote in any instance. During the campaign, I can hardly recall anyone making a case for AV itself: even the lib dems didn’t really want it, the best they could manage was that it was the slightly better of two evils. There was hardly widespread outrage that it was not voted for.
The NHS is an interesting one, as most polls suggest it is valued very highly by the British people. Although again, some people are bound to feel stronger than others; ie those who have used the system. There is also a sizeable minority in favour of reorganisation (albeit not within the NHS).
Money, on the other hand, is something that every person in Scotland handles. I’d argue a debate on the future of Scottish bank notes would feel more ‘real’ to people than the other issues you suggest, the NHS excepted.
Ultimately you’re right, in the absence of any data this is all speculation, we can’t really know either way unless the situation comes to pass.
#37 by Andrew Smith on August 10, 2012 - 4:15 pm
As someone who has had the legal tender conversation with London retailers one time too many I heartily agree with this piece.
On a vastly more inconvenient note is when banks and exchanges abroad don’t accept Scottish money, I remember going to Cuba with a friend of mine who was stuck with £400 of Scottish money which the Cuban banks refused to touch, although they exchanged my Euros with no questions asked and said they would gladly have taken English notes. Whether they were acting legally or not is fairly irrelevant as it was just plain inconvenient.
I don’t think people in Scotland feel any more affinity for Scottish banks than any others, I see literally no downside to your suggestion and I also don’t think it would make one iota of a difference to how people will vote in 2014.
#38 by Alex Grant on August 10, 2012 - 4:15 pm
We’ll see what the net effect of the Olympics is in two years time. Meantime I would suggest the more the Unionists try to use it the better because suggesting as ever we can ‘t do it on our own is insulting to many. I haven’t say Jeff you give the mpression that YOU are happily convinced that being the junior partner in a country which crows it’s success is where you are happiest? I’m not but then I admit I’m not a member of the ‘ undecided’. What really matters will be a portrayal of what an independent Scotland cnly achieve on its own ( nd i dont mean medals) even if it means ( god forbid) we cannot possibly be part of a team which is third in the medal table????
#39 by Alasdair Frew-Bell on August 10, 2012 - 4:42 pm
Iain Martin in this weeks Spectator regales us with the ultraBrit virtues of London 2012 and the damage it is doing to Salmond in particular and the independence cause in general. We, the Scots, are all wowed by the spectacle feel a renewed sense of pride in being part of the Union and will be very happy to keep our Imperial chains gawd bless ya guv. Apparently this ex editor of the ironically named “Scotsman” goes in for this sort of heady stuff. Think he should stay off the Buckfast.
#40 by CW on August 10, 2012 - 6:40 pm
I work in a shop and CONSTANTLY get asked by foreign tourists, Scots going south, and English folk for English notes, usually without explanation. I usually just say I don’t have any, because I often don’t and can’t be bothered checking. If they push the question then I usually say “Well, you are in Scotland”.
I found it highly amusing to see Cochers raising this question, with the Mayor of London no less. It also struck me that as a good Torygraph writer, he found an opportunity to blame foreigners. I seem to remember David Mundell raising this question in Parliament too. You often find with the most ideological Tory Unionists a clinging to an idealised equal Union that never existed. The issues we have with our banknotes, and the fact that Scots take other UK banknotes without any problem, always struck me as very much symbolic of the reality of the Union. There’s nothing sadder than a Unionist pedant who hasn’t realised that after 305 years things are not going to change.
Also, I couldn’t care less about the Olympics. Anyone who lets that influence their referendum vote deserves whatever they get as a result.
#41 by Craig Gallagher on August 10, 2012 - 7:05 pm
It seems you’ve landed a few whoppers with this one, Jeff. Hopefully you’ll be humane about it and toss them back in after the obligatory photograph.
My own sentiments on all of the above is a profound ‘meh’. To the extent that I think Scottish currency should be reformed, I think we should have one central bank instead of having Clydesdale, RBS and HBOS all issuing notes. Merging them into a UK-wide currency would be taking stupidity to new levels for this Coalition, would provoke a horrendous period of inefficiency and aggravation before you could get enough specie into circulation and worst of all, a point hardly considered by the throng above, could provoke serious inflation or deflation problems if the current notes were not withdrawn quickly enough or the market was flooded with the new ones.
And I guarantee you Cuba still wouldn’t accept the new UK note for another 10 years. You want a standardised note for the whole UK? I’d start advocating we join the Euro.
#42 by Iain Menzies on August 10, 2012 - 9:11 pm
you talk about jeffs whoppers and then suggest joining the EURO!? Yer ‘avin a laff!
And there isnt an inflationary or deflationary issue.
How long does a bank note last? ive got coins that are more than 10 years old, some a good bit older, but notes? nah.
all you do is stock ATM’s with BoE notes, andreplace any Scottish (and irish) notes that come into banks from retailers with BoE notes when they go back out. You can do that without changing the physical supply of money at all.
#43 by Alasdair Frew-Bell on August 10, 2012 - 7:10 pm
In Morocco recently the preferrred currencies were Euro, followed by Dollar and Yen. The pound, of any variety, was no go. Like the nonsense that everybody speaks English, reality confounds the fanciful.
#44 by KBW on August 10, 2012 - 9:56 pm
Jeff it’s astonishing to think that you put so much time and thought into the effects these London and I mean London games are going to have on us who live and vote in Scotland and yet you do not know that small autonomous regions of the world have their own teams at the games. Just watched Bermuda beat the USA in a relay race. Bermuda? I do take massive offence when I see people like Douglas Alexander suggesting that this is going to scupper independence. He is like his sister a condescending little git. Maybe in their rumoured massive brain’s, that is the opinion he shares with his Labour colleagues who see donkeys with red rosettes being voted in to power in Lanarkshire and being unable to believe their luck. But the upward trend for the SNP is squeezing the life of out of them and the Olympics in London will only increase the pressure as Scots see the union for what it is. I would suggest that if you think the opposite the delusion is yours. If unionists are hanging there hat on British flag waving stopping independence then I am very happy for that delusion to continue. A full list of countries in the Olympics. Independence or not Scotland has as much right to be there as anyone under our own flag: http://tiny.cc/3veuiw
#45 by Aidan on August 10, 2012 - 10:04 pm
3 things, very quickly: Scottish notes aren’t legal tender in England, there’s no legal tender at all in Scotland, it seems unlikely Scottish banks would still be able to issue promissery notes in an independent Scotland within a Sterling Zone.
#46 by Indy on August 10, 2012 - 11:57 pm
We can just use gold.
#47 by Commenter on August 11, 2012 - 12:39 pm
Genuine question: did the Irish use Bank of England notes when they were in the Sterling zone for the decades after independence?
#48 by FormerChampagneSocialist on August 11, 2012 - 11:12 pm
Aidan
English banknotes aren’t theoretically legal tender in Scotland either. So the issue (if it is an issue) cuts both ways.
Your point about promissory notes is completely wrong. I can issue you a sterling promissory note and there’s no law preventing me from doing so. Companies, for example, regularly issue sterling notes (although not usually ‘bearer’ notes). Whether you accept my promissory note as a satisfactory means of payment is a matter for you.
As a weekly visitor to London I very rarely have an issue using Scottish banknotes.
FCS
#49 by Brian Nicholson on August 11, 2012 - 2:16 am
But why stop at just banknotes? Is it not time to standardize the flag( no more Saltire), traditional dress ( replace the kilt), language ( put Gaelic, Doric, Cornish and the lot in the trashbin), and of course, the courts ( why do we need two law systems). It seems our esteemed writer has embraced the policies of the Edward Longshanks. Remember the famous quote from Braveheart, “the only thing wrong with Scotland is that it is full of Scots”. Taking away Scottish history and traditions is just a modern way of “breeding them out”. Unfortunately our Green lad has been captured by the London disease.
#50 by Jeff on August 11, 2012 - 12:13 pm
Jesus wept.
#51 by Johnmcdonaldish on August 11, 2012 - 1:06 pm
What did you expect??
I genuinely thought your article was meant to be tongue-in-cheek (especially as it took the lead from Alan Cochrane) but obviously it wasn’t.
What really got the big man weeping was ridiculous and baseless generalisations. God give us strength…
#52 by Chris on August 11, 2012 - 12:04 pm
I think about the only events that could bring about a majority for independence is either the removal of Scottish banknotes or the merger of the UK football teams.
It is usually no problem exchanging Scottish notes in London and gets progressively more difficult as you head outwards, except for tourist spots like Oxford and Stratford. By the time you get to Bristol its pitchforks at dawn.
It is pretty pointless trying to exchange Scottish notes outside of the UK or Ireland.
However none of this is as difficult as changing a Northern Irish note anywhere in the UK including Scotland and even Glasgow where they are not particularly rare.
#53 by Commenter on August 11, 2012 - 12:44 pm
I never had trouble from Bournemouth taxi drivers when it came to Scottish notes. Relatives tell me that in London it’s foreigner shop workers with no concept of Scotland or Scottish banknotes who present the biggest problem for them. Understandable really – would you accept some weird banknote you’d never seen before?
#54 by Juteman on August 11, 2012 - 3:22 pm
If the Scots vote no to being a ‘proper’ country in 2014, we will get what we deserve.
As a northern county of England, we should not expect to have our own notes, legal system, NHS, etc.
#55 by Alasdair Frew-Bell on August 12, 2012 - 1:43 am
What is so ball-crunchingly pathetic about some of this is that the SNP, or whatever, loyalists have such fond feelings for, or such visceral/vestigial regard for the ding an sich, namely, sentimentalized, clapped out, post-imperial Britain. Keep the monarchy, the pound, the commonwealth and uncle Tom Cobley, a Dhìa! ! a veritable Fine Gael in the making.
Cochrane and like Unionists could well be right. Britain, a post-reformation chimeric, supra-national evocation of Scots antisyzygy after all, may mean more to our contemporary “risk averse” mindset than is realised. It’s THE weak point.To remove this “vile thing” from the national psyche requires some major surgery. Sometimes I wonder about contemporary Scottish nationalism. It seems just too phlegmatically, cozily, non-ideologically boringly “British” for confort. Would that it ditched the lawyers, ditched the accountants, ditched the “wha’s like us” petit bourgeois respectability and actually set this f**king country alight…..A generation expects!
#56 by nconway on August 12, 2012 - 2:07 pm
Bring on the Euro …as much as folk talk of its demise its not going away .The Eurozone has a larger Gdp than China and also the USA the eurozone will reorganise itself and be the stronger for it .
#57 by JPJ2 on August 12, 2012 - 3:19 pm
I have loved and yelled out in support of every Team GB at this and every other Olympics as Scotland is currently part of that team-but I do not buy into the idea that Team GB is essential.
I also cheer for Team Europe in the Ryder Cup, but I don’t buy into the more obviously untrue suggestion that a Team Europe should be created just because “we” might then top the Olympic medal table.
Carried to its logical conclusion we ought now to be agitating for a Team GB in football-but does anyone really believe that a Team GB winning the World Cup in 1966 would have had many Scots in it, even given Celtic being at their all time peak, and Scotland beating England at Wembley in 1967 (in case anyone says the 1967 match was not an important or meaningful one, it was, as it was part of the “Home” Nations qualifying competition for Euro 68 {formerly the European Nations Cup}.
In fact I think is highly unlikely that the rest of the World is aware of the extent of the Scottish contribution to Olympic success.
By all means celebrate British and Scottish success in the Olympics as I do, but anyone who thinks that the positive spin off from the Olympics, likely to accrue to London from GB success, will also be reflected in Scotland is deluding themselves.
The only way to promote Scotland (stating the obvious) is to promote SCOTLAND not Britain (or perhaps England-I give commentators in the UK credit for what must have been a herculean effort to say “Britain” rather than “England”, but I doubt many in the Rest of the World bothered to do so, or in many cases realise that Britain and England are not synonyms.
.
#58 by Chris on August 12, 2012 - 5:11 pm
Juteman,
I didn’t realise that becoming a northern county of England was a possible referendum option. I guess if it was it would be even less popular than independence.
#59 by Juteman on August 12, 2012 - 7:50 pm
@Chris.
That will be the consequence of a ‘no’ vote.
The threat/fear of Independence led to the devolved parliament being allowed by Westminster.
If the vote is ‘no’, then Westminster will set about rolling back what little powers we have, to make sure it’s authority isn’t challenged again.
I don’t think enough folk have thought about what a ‘no’ vote will lead to. It certainly won’t be the status-quo.