A history graduate, advocate for LGBT equality, Albion Rovers supporter and Liberal Democrat, Andrew Page is accustomed to being identified with minority causes. He contested Renfrewshire North and West for the his party in 2011 and blogs at A Scottish Liberal.
I’m a rather late convert to the cause of Scottish independence – a conversion that owes more to pragmatism than it does to political ideology.
I’ve never been the kind of Liberal Democrat vociferously opposed to the notion of independence. In 2007 I believed that, while a prospective coalition was a non-starter due to simple arithmetic, the party was misguided to rule out co-operation with the SNP on the basis that a referendum represented a “fundamental barrier”. Neither have I ever accepted the flawed logic of previous Scottish Lib Dem leaders in consistently denying Scottish voters the referendum – an ultimately futile tactic that has made it easy for political opponents to portray us as small-minded arch-unionists and contributed in no small way to our alienating of many traditional supporters.
The leadership line for the previous few years has been more pro-unionist than the view of the party membership, and has been influenced more by antipathy towards the SNP than by either a coherent political strategy or a commitment to democratic principles. The referendum represents the fairest and most liberal option and is certainly preferable to elected politicians and Westminster policy makers deciding Scotland’s future on our behalf. I have struggled to reconcile our party’s democratic credentials with what I perceive as a poorly conceived and fundamentally illiberal approach in recent years and have become increasingly convinced that, far from being anathema to convinced liberals, independence offers significant opportunities.
Not being a nationalist, the question of Scotland’s constitutional future has always been of secondary interest to the creation of a liberal society and a fairer political system. Features of the liberal Scottish society Liberal Democrats aspire to achieve include tolerance, an embracing of pluralism, the guarantee of free expression, the fostering of autonomous choices and greater democratic freedoms. A liberal society is one in which its citizens are empowered to take greater control of their own destinies. Liberals in the UK have a history of campaigning for a fairer and more democratic voting system, a green economy, decentralisation and localism, an end to the privileges afforded to the unelected House of Lords, reducing the voting age to 16 and the fairness agenda (so beloved of Nick Clegg). For those of us living in Scotland, liberals are far more likely to achieve such objectives in an independent Scotland than within a dysfunctional Union. A British system of PR is unlikely to be achieved in my lifetime, but may well be a feature of an independent Scottish democratic system
in which concerns about the House of Lords would be both academic and redundant. Similarly, our objectives on fairness, the economy, green energy, lowering the voting age and empowering communities would have a greater chance of fulfilment after independence than they would have under the status quo, which has a proven track record of non-delivery.
The preamble to the Liberal Democrats’ constitution states that “the Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community”. The key question for Liberal Democrats therefore must be “which constitutional arrangement best allows for the creation of such a society?”
The preamble also makes the claim that “we believe that sovereignty rests with the people and that authority in a democracy derives from the people. We therefore acknowledge their right to determine the form of government best suited to their needs and commit ourselves to the promotion of a democratic federal framework within which as much power as feasible is exercised by the nations and regions of the United Kingdom.” This is clearly inconsistent with the leadership’s stance in recent years but also, in theory at least, simultaneously commits liberals to the right of self-determination and “democratic federalism”.
If I genuinely felt that the Liberal Democrats were capable of achieving this “democratic federalism” I would be supporting all attempts to make it a reality, as my inclinations are liberal, not nationalist. What we have learned is that, in eight years of coalition in Holyrood and two years in Westminster very little progress has been made on the federalism front. To put it bluntly, if it was a crime to be a federalist there would be very little evidence with which to convict the Liberal Democrats. We are not the “guarantors of change” Willie Rennie disingenuously claims us to be. Even if the premise that the party is by nature a federalist one is accepted, it is naive to believe that the best channel by which to achieve the benefits of federalism is affiliation to the negative Better Together campaign, which lacks any kind of vision for a post-referendum Scotland.
We have a Deputy Prime Minister who asserts that “we are a devolutionist party”. That, of course, is not entirely true. Federalism is many things but it is not devolutionism. Jo Grimond recognised that a risk of devolution was “too much government” and that “it is no good transferring from Westminster to Edinburgh the diseases which…are bringing British democracy to its knees.” What is needed, insisted Grimond, was an arrangement that is open and accountable – “less government, better government and government nearer home”. He retained suspicions about romantic and inward-looking nationalism but also argued that, as far as Scotland’s future was concerned, “not to go far enough may be worse than going too far”. Devolution is not by nature a liberal arrangement and has a tendency to deliver over-government. Independence on the other hand, while clearly going further than federalism, does have the potential to provide both more effective local government and less government. From a liberal perspective, this has to be the best of both possible worlds.
The Scottish Liberal Democrats talk of federalism and Home Rule, which is welcome. Unfortunately, the actions of the leadership in identifying themselves with the Tories and Labour in a coalition of cynical negativity is likely to compromise both the party’s distinctive message and attempts to portray itself as anything other than committed to unionism. However, public perception is simply one challenge for the Liberal Democrats: another, more pertinent, difficulty being that the scope for achieving whatever the Home Rule Commission recommends is zero. Pragmatic liberals realise that without an additional option on the ballot form the choice is between the status quo, with no clear indication of what Scotland’s future will look like post-referendum, and an independence which offers opportunities for both Scottish liberalism and the Scottish Liberal Democrats.
There would be electoral opportunities for the Liberal Democrats in a post-independence Scotland of which the party should be mindful. It is unclear what would happen to the SNP but, even if it continued as a political force, having achieved its primary goal the Scottish Liberal Democrats could be well-positioned to benefit from uncertainty within the SNP’s ranks. Independence could prove to be an antecedent for a liberal revival, especially if the party is able to use the referendum campaign to its advantage. Admittedly, the second possibility is looking more remote by the day but it remains an inescapable fact that independence could serve the Liberal Democrats well, in a similar way to how devolution has benefitted the Scottish Conservatives.
Of course, embracing independence will require surrendering the commitment to a federal Britain in which Scotland is part. I have no difficulty with this, especially as inaction on the part of the leadership is largely responsible for undermining my faith in the achievement of federalism. While I would have preferred the party leadership to have done everything in its power to ensure an option more closely relating to our position would be presented to voters, what is precious about federalism isn’t a doctrinal commitment to it but the kind of society it can help create. Federalism, like all constitutional arrangements, is simply a tool; a means to a desired end. The focus must be on end goals, not the journey. We must be mindful that the final destination – a fairer, better Scotland in which liberal values can thrive – is so much more significant than the route by which we arrive there.
In 2014, like millions of other Scots, I will be voting on the future of our nation. I will do so from a commitment to liberal values and a determination to progress the cause of liberalism. That is why I will vote “yes”.
#1 by Andrew Smith on July 2, 2012 - 11:00 am
That’s a well written and interesting article and a strong argument. My only question is how your view would be affected should there be a question for more powers/ devo max?
#2 by Dr William Reynolds on July 2, 2012 - 11:12 am
Thanks for your contribution Andrew.I found it to interesting.As an SNP member,I am always pleased when the debat moves beyond tribal politics and when the Yes campaign embraces people across the political spectrum,as well as those who are not political.
#3 by James on July 2, 2012 - 11:19 am
William, does that still apply when you read about SNP supporters who’ll vote no? They do exist..
#4 by Dr William Reynolds on July 2, 2012 - 4:26 pm
Yes James it does.My point is that the referndum is a welcome opportunity to work with people acroos the political spectrum for a common view,the view that decisions about Scotland are best made by people who live there.I really like the idea of colaboration with liberals ,greens,conservatives,labour and socialists.There are elemnts within the policies of those parties,especially the liberals and Greens that I could support post-independence.Of couse there are SNP voters who do not (yet) support independence but it is refreshing to cooperate with non SNP voters who do support independence.
#5 by Andrew Page on July 2, 2012 - 11:24 am
If there was such a question (and there should be) I would vote yes to both questions. I have for a long time been a believer in federalism and while devo max would certainly be an improvement on the status quo, it is in itself not necessarily a steeping stone to a coherent federalist settlement. I have reached the stage at which no other outcome than independence seems capable of either being delivered or achieving the best outcome for Scots. Imagine if the public voted for more powers – we’d have an almost endless debate about what exactly those powers should be with predictable disagreement between the major parties.
If we’re going to be asked to vote on something, we need to know the detail of what it actually is. At the moment we hear vague talk of a second question but the conversation is a purely academic one. But in all likelhood I’d vote yes for independence and yes also to any arrangement that is an improvement on what we have as a secondary option.
I think the Liberal Democrats should stop talking about different levels of devolution and instead promote “indy minus”! It might make a lot more sense and would be a lot more intellectually honest.
#6 by Cath on July 2, 2012 - 1:41 pm
“does that still apply when you read about SNP supporters who’ll vote no? They do exist..”
I’m not William, but thought I’d respond as I agree wholeheartedly with this article, and until last year I was an SNP supporter who didn’t want full independence.
I voted SNP in 2007, and was dismayed by the Lib Dems refusal to engage with them as, at that time, I was more aligned with the Lib Dems – supporting full fiscal autonomy, as in their manifesto. Aside from that, the two parties appeared more or less identical and could have governed very well together. The fact all 3 other parties instead huddled together in a unionist opposition clique pushed me far more strongly towards the SNP (as I’m sure it did many people, hence 2011).
I remained more a supporter of FFA, and would have been a “no” in opinion polls for independence. However seeing the way things are now panning out, it’s very clear what is on offer is basically “leave Westmisnter in control, and we’ll tell you what you can and can’t have, when we get around to it, and if we remember Scotland exists after 2014” or independence, where the Scottish parliament takes control and we can finally have properly joined up, accountable government here.
Under those options, there is simply no contest – it has to be independence. I’d be surprised if there were many, if any, SNP supporters who felt otherwise.
I’m frustrated with the Lib Dems as I feel, had they worked with the SNP in 2007, they could have taken responsibility jointly with them for implmenting large parts of their own manifesto, possibly even including FFA. That option now feels as if it’s gone, and the time passed when it could have been implemented.
#7 by Andrew Page on July 2, 2012 - 3:52 pm
I agree with you Cath that 2007 represents a missed opportunity. We still wouldn’t have had a parliamentary majority so I’m not sure the arithmetic was there to make it work. However, we could have collaborated with the SNP and worked closely with them we could have done a fair bit to both achieve some of our core constitutional objectives and framed the referendum question.
You’re not the only person to have been pushed towards the SNP by the actions of previous Lib Dem leaders; there are many liberal people within the SNP who might otherwise now be either supporters or members of the Lib Dems.
Plenty of opportunities have gone, but some remain – if only Willie Rennie knew how to seize them.
#8 by James on July 2, 2012 - 3:58 pm
Ah, but the point in 2007, of course, was that 47 SNP + 16 LD + 2 Green would have been the narrowest absolute majority possible, and that three-party coalition (or two-party coalition with the Greens promising confidence and supply) was what was on the table. I personally put in a call from New St Andrews House to a Lib Dem friend inviting them even to talk about talks, but they were too angry with the SNP to take part. The specific line I got was “but they murdered George Lyon”. I kid you not.
#9 by Andrew Page on July 2, 2012 - 5:57 pm
Well, that last comment says everything you need to know about the Lib Dem attitude at the time. I think the electoral arithmetic made the prospect of a coalition difficult, but not necessarily impossible. A three-party coalition would certainly have proved interesting. At the very least the Lib Dems should have considered the possibility and entered into a conversation, and to rule out an potential arrangement simply because of the SNP’s commitment to a referendum was plainly wrong. It wasn’t as if the SNP’s position was something they were unaware of.
#10 by Paul on July 2, 2012 - 4:28 pm
“but they murdered George Lyon”
The LibDems seem to be enjoying murdering their own party with an obsessive hatred of Alex Salmond. They go into coalition with the Conservatives in Westminster, but refuse anything to do with the SNP in Scotland, it beggars belief.
The only other LibDem I’ve heard comments from about independence (other than Andrew) is so scared about independence, so childlike in fear it is almost endearing.
Andrew makes so many valid points above, I can only hope the sheer amount of sense in it will break through the anti-snp hatred in the leadership – there is nothing liberal about the union, so in reality it should be an open vote for LibDems
#11 by gavin on July 2, 2012 - 4:59 pm
Very positive article and comments.
Its surely an interesting addition to the mix, that some in the Tory party now want to repatriate powers from the EU. Devo- Max, you could call it.
Or an in-out referendum. Independence anyone!
They dont want it now, but wish to wait a few years to allow for debate. Now that rings a bell.
I dont wish to cast aspertions but it smacks of a large dollop of hypocracy, given what they say in Scotland.
Wonder where this leaves Davidson, who gets sidelined and ignored by her party on this issue at all times.
#12 by peter on July 2, 2012 - 6:34 pm
i was under the impresion that you had ceased writing you blog, andrew.
as an snp supporter ive always enjoyed reading your views and this article is no exception.
#13 by Andrew Page on July 2, 2012 - 7:00 pm
I did give it up, for a couple of months in fact before being lured back. I am writing again, but contributions may be less frequent now due to changing commitments. Hopefully you can keep on enjoying my musings!
#14 by Garve on July 2, 2012 - 7:06 pm
Excellent article Andrew. Do you think there’s any chance of this being allowed to be the subject of debate at party conferences between now and the referendum? It would be very interesting to know how many Liberals felt as you do, and how many were persuadable.
#15 by Derick fae Yell on July 2, 2012 - 10:44 pm
Another Liberal voice talking sense – most refreshing indeed.
http://lylibertine.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/the-case-for-scottish-independence-devolution-has-failed-time-to-try-something-else/
#16 by Colin Dunn on July 3, 2012 - 9:43 am
A really interesting article, and one that gives food for thought.
One key issue here is that the No parties portray all supporters of independence as fanatical card-carrying SNP members. This is far from the truth. I think a very large number are actually not naturally SNP supporters at all, but traditional Labour, LibDem, Tory, Green, etc, fed up with with their vote not mattering in Westminster FPTP elections. Many chose to vote for the SNP in 2011 so that they can vote the way they really want to post indy – me included.
By propagating the cybernat as lunatic fringe myth the other parties are taking a really big risk. By insulting and denigrating these voters now they risk losing their vote permanently. As a longtime LibDem voter (mostly due to a desire for PR – look what happened to that 😉 I’ve certainly been disappointed to see them engage in the same silly and offensive indy-baiting as Labour and Tories, and this will certainly have an effect on how I vote post indy. At the moment all of these parties look the same to me barring their name.
Maybe the NO parties realise this, and have simply decided that it’s worth doing to try to halt the SNP. That’d be disappointing, as if they could just take off the SNP-hate-tinted specs for a while they might realise that by uniting against indy in this way, and using the same tactics, they are essentially blurring into a single monolithic Tory party in the eyes of voters.
#17 by Bernie Hughes on July 3, 2012 - 10:56 am
Andrew, I was a LibDem member for 5 years. I went to meetings, pushed things through letterboxes, turned up at conference, ran a liberal political blog and even stood as a council candidate. I have no doubt that the average LibDem member is more thoughtful and more politcally aware than the average member of any other party in Scotland. But it’s a waste of time. The leadership in Scotland are not interested; they are content to pursue their personal vendetta against Salmond even to the extent of abandoning the traditional liberal commitment to Home Rule in favour of sharing a Unionist platform with the likes of John Reid and Michael Forsyth. The only way that a more liberal Scotland can be created is by breaking the anachronist domination of Westminster. Join the SNP.
#18 by Doug Daniel on July 3, 2012 - 10:59 am
I think Andrew is a great example of how people should be approaching this debate, similarly to how the Greens arrive at their support for independence. There are those of us who quite simply believe that Scotland should have the same rights and responsibilities as any other landmass in the world that calls itself a country. For the rest,
there’s Mastercardwe need to see what powers Scotland will be voting for if they vote YES or NO, so that people can make a judgement as to which option best achieves their desired settlement for Scotland.This is why it’s so dishonest of the NO camp to tell us “we need to decide if we’re staying in the union first” in order to dodge questions about further devolution. If NO can’t deliver the powers to allow Scotland to achieve the goals people such as Andrew seek, then how can people vote for it? People need to know what they get with a NO vote, so they can decide if it’s worth throwing away the chance of Scotland managing its own economy properly just for the sake of leaving defence and foreign policy in the hands of Westminster.
I think Andrew’s stance also highlights something else – support for YES and NO will only go one way here (generally, at least – there are some nutters out there who would be kicked out of Siol nan Gaidheal for being too extreme). People who currently support independence are not about to say “hmm, I’ve suddenly decided Scotland couldn’t defend itself” and move over to the NO camp; but people who currently support the union MAY look at what they want Scotland to get, balance this out against what they don’t want Scotland to get, and come to the conclusion that, to use Andrew’s quote from Jo Grimond, “not to go far enough may be worse than going too far”.
This is why I couldn’t give much of a toss what the polls say – as time goes on, people will get more accustomed to the idea that Scotland could become independent, and come to realise it’s not something we can pass up on.