Alex Salmond’s unfortunate late pull out from BBC Question Time last week was a missed opportunity for the party. A series of soft blows over the past few weeks for the SNP culminated in what was arguably Johann Lamont’s best performance at First Minister’s Questions since she became Labour leader.
Granted, it was an open goal with the First Minister himself credited with an unwitting assist but a public pulpit from which to come out loudly fighting on Murdoch questions would have done the SNP the world of good in terms of building some momentum and dampening down the distant disquiet that could yet spill over within the party. It’s little wonder that Alex Salmond chose to make a rare mea culpa over Murdoch in the week before the important May elections. The FM has gone from having done nothing wrong to learning lessons which, to me, doesn’t entirely make logical sense.
There’s been more than a little hubris at play recently, not just from the perennially self-satisfied Salmond though. On Twitter the other day, this remarkable exchange involving the SNP’s former Chief of Staff Luke Skipper suggests that some in the party believe that the media shouldn’t be asking questions of the Government at all. I’m sure there’s a term for such an approach but I hesitate to repeat it:
@BBCDouglasFraser Why does #scotgov have to back News Corp owning all of BSkyB to protect Sky jobs in Scotland? It failed, so are jobs at risk?
@BBCJamesCOOK It’s an excellent question for #FMQs: How many Scottish jobs have been lost as a result of the BSkyB deal’s failure?
@LJ_Skipper I think it’s the opposition’s job to come up with the questions. Good ol’unbiased #BBC #FMQs #listeningric
@BBCJamesCOOK Asking questions isn’t biased. It’s journalism. Disturbing if reporters stopped from questioning.
It takes quite a leap of mental gymnastics to disagree with the BBC’s James Cook here. We should all embrace an open, free, rigorous media asking uncomfortable questions of the Government, on whatever topic they feel the public will be interested in. Whether those questions are posed directly or rhetorically as a would-be FMQ is neither here nor there.
Even the usually sure-footed Burd had the touch of the paranoia around a recent post when she rallied around Geoff Aberdein after those ‘nasty media types’ ganged up on the Special Adviser.
“Scottish Labour thinks it has a cunning plan to wound Alex Salmond over the Murdoch stuff by gunning for his Special Advisor, Geoff Aberdein. It worked at Westminster, after all. Following revelations at the Leveson inquiry about the extent of contact between Jeremy Hunt’s Special Advisor and the Murdoch Empire’s man over the BSkyB takeover bid, the poor wee SpAD was thrown to the political and media wolves in the hope that some fresh meat would sate their appetites. Not a chance, it simply whets them.
But the circumstances are different in Scotland. The reason Hunt is in the firing line, and the reason his special advisor had to go, is because he was supposed to be acting in a quasi-judicial capacity on this takeover bid.”
Conflating Hunt’s quasi-judicial role with the quite separate issues that Salmond faces is a bit sneaky and is certainly weak. Opting not to tackle an issue head on is a typical second option behind pretending there isn’t an issue in the first place, which is all the more bizarre as Kate freely acknowledged that Salmond is getting too close to Murdoch.
As for the “poor wee Spad”, I really don’t think you can have it both ways. You can’t be a special adviser to the Scottish Government without a certain degree of scrutiny, particularly when the BBC reports, not unreasonably, that a dubious deal appears to have been done with News international.
The potentially damning quote, “I met with Alex Salmond’s adviser today. He will call Hunt whenever we need him to.”, could mean anything of course but it would be a dereliction of duty on the part of investigative journalists and the political opposition alike to not explore a potential abuse of power, lobbying of the UK Government by the Scottish Government at a time of Rupert Murdoch’s choosing. Who voted for that?
Not that this sensitivity isn’t understandable. I guess it must be easier to be on the backfoot when you’re Labour or Tory because you know you’ll be back up riding high in a term or two. It’s taken the SNP 70 years to get to where they are. Who is to say that this Nationalist surge won’t deflate as quickly as it was built up, and stay there?
One year in, it seems a parliamentary majority doesn’t sit well with the SNP. A victim mentality built up over decades coupled with not being able to point the finger of blame elsewhere is hard to reconcile on the face of it. The majority may have delivered the referendum but it’s proving to be am increasingly difficult challenge to hold everything together against the relentless march of time.
One can only hope that the party can ditch the paranoia, get back to basics on the devolved powers that they do hold, accept that criticism, questions and scrutiny are part of the job and kick on from there.
One step backwards over the past few weeks won’t be so bad if the weeks ahead bring a few steps forwards.
#1 by BaffieBox on May 1, 2012 - 2:41 pm
All reasonably fair Jeff.
I do take issue with FMQ’s being anywhere near Johann’s best – she screwed it up IMO. Took shouting to an all new level and openly mocked the First Minister. Compare and contrast what was actually he best – and that was her first week. Calm, controlled, to the point and delivered with a softer touch – I genuinely thought at the time she could do some damage (and many Labour supporters, on Twitter for example, agreed). She could and should have done far better on Thursday.
#2 by Iain Menzies on May 1, 2012 - 2:56 pm
I think she did pretty well.
I’ve seen a few times now this line about ‘dis-respecting’ Salmond, and i think it is another facet of what Jeff is going on about here.
I mean since when was Scotland a country that deferred to someone just because of the job they have?
He is wee eck, it wasnt the words that were ‘dissing’ him it was the tone. Which makes it rather tragic that some nats seem to want to call him Maximum Eck, which i personally think only points to a fondness for the pies….
#3 by Doug Daniel on May 1, 2012 - 4:37 pm
The only person I see calling him Maximum Eck is Lallands Peat Worrier, and he’s doing it for comedic purposes.
#4 by Indy on May 2, 2012 - 9:14 pm
The thing is her FMQ personna is completely false. I have discussed this with a few people because I thought maybe it was just me but they have agreed.
Put simply, her lines are obviously being written by a man and a man trying to get under Alex Salmond’s skin. All that stuff last week about being infatuated with rich men. It’s so false – that is not Johann Lamont speaking.
I rather liked Johann Lamont, she had a certain doggedness and integrity. It would be nice to see the real Johann again!
#5 by Aidan on May 1, 2012 - 3:37 pm
Someone *openly mocked* the First Minister? I’m shocked, and I’m sure he’d never stoop to such a level. Certainly not openly mocking someone by taking out of context quotes from year old posts on Labour Hame…
#6 by BaffieBox on May 1, 2012 - 11:21 pm
Deliberately taking comments out of context… wonder where we’ve heard that before. 😉 You might also be confusing me with someone who wants to stick up the First Minister on party lines.
But fair enough I guess. At least we have now established that Johan’s manner of debate is acceptable and par for the course, and we can dispense with future faux outrage on all sides. Think were setting the bar pretty low if I’m being honest.
And even at his smug and arrogant, I’m not sure Ive ever heard Salmond mock anyone with such lack of class like that. If the dialogue were reversed, and Salmond wad crying “wee Jo, wee Jo” the Twittersphere might have imploded.
The defence of “your lot started it” is duely noted. :p
#7 by Aidan on May 1, 2012 - 11:41 pm
Not really sure what you’re referring to there but twisting Dominics comments about #sp11 into an attack on Glasgow Labour for #gccvote is pretty low. But not the main point.
My main point was that’s the level of Scottish politics at the moment. It’s not spectacularly edifying but it is how the games played at the moment. It’s a bit grim but that’s where we are. If you’ve never heard Salmond mock anyone with a lack of class can I suggest you read http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/28862.aspx?r=6976&i=63502&c=1305341 ?
Also, my defence isn’t “your lot started it”. My defence is “Shoulder tae shoulder, ref”
#8 by BaffieBox on May 2, 2012 - 9:38 am
Touche! 🙂
In fairness though, Im not necessarily complaining about the tackle – Salmond didnt suffer as bad as he should had done because of Johan’s delivery, and Johan didnt do as well as she could have.
“Play on ref!”
#9 by Aidan on May 2, 2012 - 2:50 pm
As an addendum, the esteemed FM has just used the phrase “absolute mince of a question” to describe Ruth Davidsons question at FMQ and laid into her and dissembled.
#10 by Jeff on May 2, 2012 - 3:10 pm
When and where? Not very statesmanlike language from the FM there. He doesn’t like being rattled.
#11 by GMcM on May 1, 2012 - 3:39 pm
Very good post Jeff. A fair assessment of the situation.
I agree it was a strong performance from Johann and contrary to BaffieBox I think it showed another side to her – she won’t just be the quiet, softly-spoken, concerned party leader; when she has to she will go full blood and thunder. I think people like to know a leader can react appropriately to an issue.
Look at AS – one of the reasons he has managed to gain support is because he learned to adopt a reserved manner. In the past he was very animated at all times giving the impression of someone who was erratic – having more strings to your bow helps in the political dog-fight.
Johann was showing the reverse to Salmond – she showed she can be passionate but in a controlled way rather than the hysterical way that came across from Wendy Alexander.
A lot of people in Scotland liked Annabel Goldie because she was articulate, passionate and funny – her problem was she is a Tory. If Johann marries her personality to Labour policies she will surely make inroads.
#12 by Michael on May 1, 2012 - 4:20 pm
Which Labour policies?
#13 by Michael on May 1, 2012 - 4:07 pm
Your position and that of Labour reminds me of the sort of ridiculous black and white posturing that you used to get at SRC meetings at university. The key charge here is that Salmond and Murdoch are cosying up to one another. For goodness sake look at that in some detail and actually ask yourself what that amounts to? The difficulty some politicians, commentators and journalists have is that this is of utterly no relevance to anything that actually matters since not only is it something every politician in the UK has done but something which is the stuff of ‘business’, i.e. commercial and non-commercial transactions involving people meeting and discussing matters of mutual interest. Everyone doing ‘business’, as it were, sends e-mails like this all the time. When the Uk limps along in the grip of the worst recession ever, when the future looks increasingly hopeless within a decaying and bankrupt state and where the BBC is widely believed to act in the interests of that state, it is beyond belief that sensible commentators like yourself allow this non-story to rumble on and on.
#14 by Jeff on May 1, 2012 - 4:30 pm
A totally fair point Michael. I don’t really care much for whether Salmond did or didn’t get too cosy with Murdoch et al and what their fireside chats involved, hence my urging the SNP to get back to basics on devolved policy (is there anything in the pipeline at the moment?) rather than get sucked into these debates that take place when there’s a policy vaccuum. I think the Sun and News of the World is a proper scummy paper but that doesn’t mean that Rupert Murdoch isn’t an important (and successful) businessman that the First Minister should meet with. I have to say though, the post was less about the rights or wrongs of Salmond’s conduct and more about the reaction of the SNP at large and a paranoia that is seeping into their style.
For me, I think this has been caused by a gaping hole in the SNP’s workload of late whereby too much is dedicated to independence and there’s not enough ‘bread and butter’ devolved issues being worked on and discussed which, in turn, leads to a need to paper over the cracks and a little bit of panic to set in. The media is partially to blame of course, I don’t see the Scotland on Sunday doing a four page spread on the Curriculum of Excellence, e.g..
I guess the key charge really is this then, can the SNP continue for the next two years as they have been for the past few months? i.e. Light on policy, heavy on rhetoric and constantly playing defence?
#15 by John Ruddy on May 1, 2012 - 5:22 pm
“seeping into their style” ?? This paranoia has always been there – they’ve just been better at hiding it in the past.
As you so rightly say, its the fact that their existence, their whole policy arena is developed around the sense of grievance they have – the victim mentality. It really doesnt work well when you’re in charge and theres no one else to blame.
Sir Humphrey called it “Masterly Inactivity”, and the SNP have managed it very well indeed.
#16 by Doug Daniel on May 1, 2012 - 4:56 pm
The paranoia is due to Salmond seemingly being crucified for something that every political leader in the UK has done over the past 30 or so years, only Salmond hasn’t even been as bad as the rest. It’s just another case of something only being bad when the SNP do it, and it’s boring, quite frankly. So of course paranoia creeps in.
If this story was exclusively about Salmond doing some dodgy deal with Murdoch, and there was actually some evidence of something, you could understand the media furore. But the fact is it’s a very minor side-issue to the much larger real issue of Jeremy Hunt’s behaviour. So those of us of a nationalist persuasion see the Scottish media ignoring that real issue and focusing instead on some piddly little idea that essentially depends on a two-line email by someone who ordinarily wouldn’t be believed if he said the sky is blue. Naturally, we get a bit paranoid. “Oh, here we go again, another ‘SNP ACCUSED!!!!11111ONEONEONEWUNWUNWUN’ story.” I mean, we even have the Scotsman today using the complete lack of a phone call between Salmond and Hunt as evidence of wrong-doing. It’s pathetic.
As the saying goes, just because you’re paranoid, it doesn’t mean they’re not after you. Scrutiny is great; baseless witch hunts less so. Hopefully we can get onto more interesting stuff after the council elections.
#17 by John Ruddy on May 1, 2012 - 5:24 pm
No, its about Salmond doing it AFTER everyone else realised about Murdoch and his papers.
Yes, everyone else cosied up to them over the last 30 years – but when Murdoch became too hot to handle, Salmond took over. And of course, with every other political party in these islands now ranged against him, Murdoch has no choice but to cosy back.
#18 by Doug Daniel on May 2, 2012 - 12:19 am
Oh I see, so it’s the fact that Salmond has refused to jump on the anti-Murdoch bandwagon with every other politician that is the source of the media’s and Labour’s ire? The fact that he’s about the only one that isn’t hypocritically pretending we’ve learned something new about how the Murdoch press in particular (and the press in general) operates, and using it as a way to try and prove some sort of point?
Note to self: always follow the crowd.
#19 by Aidan on May 1, 2012 - 6:01 pm
The lack of phone call is germane as the initial line from Salmond was that the accusation of collusion “fell at the first hurdle” as no call took place.
As it turns out, that was because it was scheduled to happen but was overtaken by events.
#20 by Michael on May 1, 2012 - 10:42 pm
What parallel universe are you living in John Ruddy? Scotland has some of the best employment figures in Europe, is acknowledged to be the strongest area economically in the Uk outside London and according to recent figures is one of the few areas in europe investing more in higher education. We’re developing fantastic new industries based on renewable technology and our small businesses are being helped through this appalling recession by sensible SNP policies.
#21 by John Ruddy on May 2, 2012 - 6:40 pm
And that was a party political broadcast on behalf of the Scottish national party.
And now, back in the real world….
Record Youth unemplyment, more jobs lost in Scotland than ever before, massive cuts to further education, councils shouldering a larger share of cuts than under the tories in England….
#22 by Allan on May 1, 2012 - 8:44 pm
“The paranoia is due to Salmond seemingly being crucified for something that every political leader in the UK has done over the past 30 or so years”
Well, yes… and every leader deserves as much critisism for sidling up to the Digger. Even more so if they have been found to have aided in his commercial expansion, as Thatch did in 1981… and 1986… oh and Blair did from 1997 onwards. Indeed one can look at the campaign waged by The S*n in the 1992 Westminster Elections in terms of Major’s Laziz Faire attitude to the expansion plans of BSkyB and NI versus Kinnock’s plans to bring in regulations that would have seen the break up of NI and see them sell BSkyB.
No, the story is about everyone knowing what the Digger is like, well everyone except naive SNP supporters, and the knowledge that the Digger does not give his support without some sort of pound of flesh.
#23 by Doug Daniel on May 2, 2012 - 12:30 am
But the difference is Blair and Thatcher were in positions to do something about those expansions. Salmond isn’t. He’s being called “Murdoch’s cheerleader” but just like a cheerleader, he has absolutely no influence over the end result.
And again, here is the source of the paranoia, because as you say, “every leader deserves as much criticism”… But where is it? We all know there have been overly-close relationships forged between News International and party leaders over the decades, but it’s Salmond’s – which by all accounts barely even counts as a relationship – which is causing such excitement in the Scottish media.
It’s like when you’re caught having a five-minute skive at work after everyone else has been dossing around for a couple of hours. That’s why it leads to paranoia.
#24 by BM on May 1, 2012 - 5:04 pm
The thing is, there doesn’t really seem to be any reason for the SNP to be paranoid. They’re weathering this Murdoch/Trump-storm pretty well, and there’s very little else which seems to damage them at the moment.
#25 by An Duine Gruamach on May 2, 2012 - 11:33 am
Yep. The bubble really think Murdoch is as toxic as they’d like him to be.
Fact is, the Sun is still the most widely read paper in Scotland (and Britain generally) and everyone still watches Sky. I don’t believe for a second that Miliband, Lamont, Cameron, Clegg etc. would just shrug their shoulders and say, “yeah, whatever”, if Murdoch said his papers would give them editorial support.
#26 by peter on May 1, 2012 - 5:42 pm
just because we’re paranoid disnnae mean they’re no oot tae get us!!!
#27 by Andrew Smith on May 1, 2012 - 6:11 pm
I don’t really buy the idea that the media are out to get the SNP on everything.
It is possible that there is something i’m missing from down south, but I regularly read the Scotsman, Herald and others and watch Newsnight Scotland and Politics Sunday Scotland pretty regularly.
There is an obvious tone of scepticism in some sneering interviewers (Paxman) but I haven’t noticed that from others, or if they do it then they are at least equally sceptical of Johann Lamont and her mob.
The key point about Lahmont is that she’s barely in the media in any meaningful way, I can’t remember the last time I saw a decently lengthed feature on her or an interview with a national newspaper and whenever she is covered it’s always with a note about why she can’t beat Salmond. Frankly the Labour press office in Scotland have a lot of work to do.
In terms of the NI stuff, I think that the general conclusion people can reach is that Salmond tried to cosy up to NI in order to get better press and hopefully seal the support of The Sun for the SNP and independence. This is not a uniquely bad thing to do (and is roughly in line with the article I wrote for this website a couple of months ago) but the defence that Labour does it too seems more like an avoidance than a response.
In this case the scrutiny is justified as the FM has been evasive at best. What to remember is that the media love commenting on the media, so it’s unlikely that this is going to be having any effect on voters other than further supporting the (unjustified) idea that all parties are the same.
#28 by Luke Skipper on May 1, 2012 - 6:19 pm
Jeff, as you are apparently unwilling to publish the full exchange between me and James Cook, I will do it for you. Its online for all to see. I wonder if your readers will share your analysis. Also I have never held the position you suggest..
@BBCDouglasFraser Why does #scotgov have to back News Corp owning all of BSkyB to protect Sky jobs in Scotland? It failed, so are jobs at risk?
@BBCJamesCOOK It’s an excellent question for #FMQs: How many Scottish jobs have been lost as a result of the BSkyB deal’s failure?
@LJ_Skipper I think it’s the opposition’s job to come up with the questions. Good ol’unbiased #BBC #FMQs #listeningric
James Cook: @LJ_Skipper @BBCDouglsFraser Asking questions isn’t biased. It’s journalism. Disturbing if reporters stopped from questioning. #freepress
Luke Skipper: @BBCJamesCook I agree. Usually they don’t prompt politically parties to ask their questions. They can ask them to politicians themselves
James Cook:@BBCJamesCook :@LJ_Skipper Don’t worry – politicians are always claiming that they don’t pay any attention to us anyway!
Luke Skipper:@BBCJamesCook I do confess I have suggested the odd question to journalists. 🙂
#29 by Iain Menzies on May 1, 2012 - 6:37 pm
I dont see how that changes anything.
Infact i think what you said is abit silly ( i only say silly because i think if i say stupid, which i mean, i might get edited).
Unless you expect the BBC, alone of all news organisations, NOT to ask any questions of a politician, and only do ‘pure’ reporting, which feels somewhat sinister, then there is nothing, what so ever, wrong with what has come from that BBC bod.
#30 by Doug Daniel on May 2, 2012 - 12:39 am
His point is it’s not the BBC’s role to tell Johann Lamont what questions she should ask at FMQs. That’s for Johann’s scriptwriters to decide. The BBC is there to ask its own questions, not come up with them for the Labour party.
That is an entirely different proposal from how James Cook took it, who didn’t seem to understand that the comment was made in the context of FMQs. What Luke was saying was that if James Cook is so interested in how many jobs have been lost, should he not just ask that question himself, for the BBC, rather than saying that Johann Lamont should ask it at FMQs?
#31 by Jeff on May 2, 2012 - 12:57 am
But Doug, isn’t that such a lame point to be making? Would anyone really think James Cook was trying to get a message out to Johann Lamont via Twitter in time for FMQ? It is a great question and yet, for whatever reason, there was a need to turn it back on the journalist by asking why he was asking it in a certain way.
However the question was phrased and whoever the question was seemingly vicariously placed through, the apparently serious suggestion that journalists shouldn’t be asking difficult questions is concerning.
#32 by Doug Daniel on May 2, 2012 - 10:13 am
I just don’t see that in Luke’s comment at all. James Cook says he’s come up with a great question for FMQs, and Luke points out it’s the opposition’s job to come up with their questions, not the media’s. Quite different from saying “shush, don’t ask difficult questions”.
There does seem to be a feeling in some circles, particularly after Stewart Stevenson was forced to resign for not being able to control the weather, that BBC Scotland has a habit of being a little too keen to create the news, rather than report it. Reporters saying “here’s what the opposition should ask at FMQs” plays into that feeling. Again, it may be paranoia, but there are reasons for it existing.
#33 by Jeff on May 2, 2012 - 10:24 am
But he doesn’t just “point out it’s the opposition’s job to come up with their questions”, he accuses them of bias. If he hadn’t made such an accusation then it wouldn’t have been a noteworthy tweet. You are seemingly doing what I accused Kate of doing, changing what the argument is about in order to win a different debate. Indeed, it’s the same as Salmond when he said the Hunt lobbying was case closed given he hadn’t phoned the UK Minister, but that’s not what people were (and are) objecting to. You can’t have the power without having the scrutiny, it just doesn’t work that way.
Perhaps Luke’s comments were meant as tongue in cheek, that’s for readers of the tweet to judge for themselves, I didn’t take it that way.
And perhaps there are genuine grounds for complaints of BBC bias as you say, I don’t know, but this certainly isn’t one of them.
I don’t really see how anyone, the BBC or otherwise, can force people to resign. If Stewart Stevenson had done no wrong (and I can’t remember the detail) then he should have stayed on.
#34 by John Ruddy on May 2, 2012 - 6:43 pm
“changing what the argument is about in order to win a different debate”
And this is why so many people give up debating with nationalists – especially online. This is something they do all the time. It allows them to claim they won the debate.
#35 by Allan on May 1, 2012 - 8:48 pm
So, what’s changed Luke, the line about “Good ol’ unbiased…” is still there and still smacks of not wanting awkward questions asked.
#36 by Dr William Reynolds on May 1, 2012 - 6:36 pm
I think that I will have to agree to disagree with Jeff on a number of points.Firstly JohanneLamonts performance at FMQ last week was (in my view) awful.She confuses personal abuse with rational debate,doesnt listen actively to answers,and showed a total inability to engage with the real issues of saving and creating jobs.Also,I believe that Alec Salmond was just doing what was expected of a First minister and is completely relaxed about scrutiny.
I also think that the Burd was sure footed and I fail to see anthing paranoid in her article.However,for those who wish to have an alternative view I recommend that they look at Moridura’s blog on this topic.Also Srephen Noon in Newsnet makes a very powerful analysis of how destructive it is for political parties to talk to themselves,and to attempt to waste energy on trying to smear their opponents.He refers to both anecdotal and polling data that indicates that voters do not listen to negative campaigns,and are more focused on their own priorities.I commend this aricle (outside of the bubble) to those who are interested in the Murdoch affair and the manner in which our political opposition conducts itself.
#37 by scottish_skier on May 1, 2012 - 7:04 pm
Number of times AS has met Rupert Murdoch = 8
Number of times AS has met my HoD (and me) over same period = 2
Number of employees at NI = 6000 odd
Number of employees at my work = 200 odd
8/6000 = 0.001
2/200 = 0.02
It seems AS has been favouring my work (Uni institute) over Mr Murdoch by one order of magnitude in terms of vists per no. of jobs. I recall him sneeking up to me and asking if I could credit him in one of my scientific papers – raise his profile a bit an aw that….
Ok that last bit didn’t happen.
So, does this mean Scotland can’t be independent? Is the latest Labour campaign entitled ‘Vote Labour on the 3rd May because Alex Salmond has met Rupert Murdoch a few times’.
There is only one reason the Sun supported the SNP and that’s because of this:
http://imageshack.us/f/571/scotsnewspapersdecline.png/
That 2007 head in noose headline sent the Sun the way of the rest – sales decling at twice the rate in Scotland compared to the UK. The Sun editor is no fool. In late April 2011 the SNP were begining to poll in the mid 40’s when the Sun commissioned its own MORI poll which put the SNP on 45%. This came on the back of a 46% for the SNP in the Mail on Sunday. On the 18th of April, after getting the results of their own poll which confirmed the others, the Sun backed the SNP.
They gave the SNP a boost of somewhere between -4 and +0%. Or maybe none at all…..Certainly wisnae the sun that won it.
I suspect this whole shenanigans will give the SNP a boost on Thursday. Certainly, negative ‘accused’ press has got them to where they are today so more can only help one presumes….
#38 by Barbarian on May 1, 2012 - 7:51 pm
Something is not right about the responses from the SNP over Murdoch. Normally, Alex is out with both barrells blazing. This time it is very subdued.
It is not just British politicians who are distancing themselves from Murdoch – it is politicians across the world. Anyone who has made the mistake of getting the Murdoch support is tainted.
The main defence at the moment is that “well everyone else was doing it.” Erm, that doesn’t mean that you need to do the same.
I said jokingly a few days ago that perhaps News Intl hacked Salmond’s phone. I’m now wondering if that is truly the case and that the SNP are desperate to avoid this news coming out.
If it does turn out to be true, then what happens?
#39 by Dr William Reynolds on May 2, 2012 - 7:20 am
Sorry Barbarian,the main defense is that Alec Salmond was doing his job and working in the interests of the Scottish people,not that everyone else was doing it.In any case I am not certain that he was doing quite the same as others,just because he spoke with Murdoch.Of course,he would hope that a spin off would be that the Sun would at least gave a more balanced view of the SNP.However,I am quite certain that the Suns decision to support them last May had more to do with selling newspapers than the alleged cosy relationship with Alec Salmond.
I can see that several people who contribute to blog sites are putting a different spin on this one.However those who are outside of the political bubble (see Stephen Kings opinion piece in Newsnet Scotland) tend to see performances,such as Johann Lamonts, at FMQ last week,as being rude and aggressive,or are completely disinterested.My personal view is that labour should focus on issues that concern people for the council elections tomorrow (household budgets,dealing with crime and un employment etc).It is curious that instead they have chosen to put their energy into smearing Alec Salmond.My guess is that they want to distract attention from their own political leaders and are furious that any of the mainstream media support the SNP.When you resort to trying to spin something into what it is nor,in order to smear your opponent,you have lost the plot.I believe that Johann Lamont has damaged her own party,far more than Alec Salmond.However,lets see what the election results tell us during the count on Friday.
#40 by Dr William Reynolds on May 2, 2012 - 7:34 am
Sorry,typographic error.I meant Stephen Noons opinion piece in Newsnet Scotland,not Stephen King (who is a friend of mine).The Noon article is an excellent analysis of how politicians who attempt to smear an opponent can get “‘burned.”I am not (like some contributors) interested in smearing Johann Lamont,just pointing out that her debating style is likely to be unproductive.I learned that lesson years ago as an inexperienced and eager canvassor.An elderly (labour supporting) lady,taught me a lesson that I will never forget.I am grateful for her help.If that lady was still around,I would recommend that she gave a seminar to the leaders of the opposition parties in the Scottish parliament.Leave out Patrick Harvie and Margo McDonal,I think they understand that insults get you nowhere.
#41 by Alasdair Stirling on May 1, 2012 - 8:07 pm
Whatever the approbation now being heaped upon Rupert Murdoch, the fact remains that Alex Salmond has as yet done no wrong. More than that, any other First Minister from any other party would have done the same. Politics is a rough and tumble affair, and I have no doubt that were the positions reversed, the SNP would be accusing a Labour First Minister just as loudly (and as unjustly). However, unfounded accusations made by political opponents (however shrill) are not a substitute for forensic evidence of First Ministerial misconduct and should not be reported by the media in any other context.
The online Nationalist community have long claimed that the mainstream Scottish media is heavily biased against the SNP. Whilst it may be acceptable for the privately owned/funded print media to demonstrate a political bias, it is wholly unacceptable for the publicly owned/funded broadcast media to demonstrate a political bias so out of step with the current political support and voting patterns.
Far from this current controversy demonstrating SNP paranoia, it has only served to demonstrate just how valid are SNP accusations of mainstream Scottish media bias. However what is interesting to me is the way that the online Nationalist community are quietly using this furore to highlight this bias, especially on the part of BBC journalists. NewsNet Scotland in particular have run a number of effective articles highlighting the BBC’s failure to present opposition accusations in the context of the available and contradictory facts.
#42 by Jeff on May 1, 2012 - 9:03 pm
“Far from this current controversy demonstrating SNP paranoia, it has only served to demonstrate just how valid are SNP accusations of mainstream Scottish media bias”
One could equally argue that your line there is another example of SNP paranoia. All governing parties get a hard time, why should the SNP be any different?
I would also say that NewsNetScotland is preaching to the converted, but you are correct that they do do an excellent job.
#43 by Alasdair Stirling on May 1, 2012 - 10:36 pm
Questioning the government or otherwise exposing the gory details of ministerial activities is not indicative of a lack of impartiality. However when the media present only the opposition accusations without an accompanying explaination of the known facts, it is guilty of bias. Funnily enough, I think that this episode may prove decisive in the independence campaign. By presenting the oppositions (unfounded) accusations in such a one sided manner, they have inadvertently taught the Nationalist community how to hold them to account.
#44 by Gerard on May 1, 2012 - 10:52 pm
Where have the BBC not presented both sides of the argument in a way that negatively affects the SNP? Also, can you honestly say the same hasn’t happened to other parties?
#45 by Iain Menzies on May 1, 2012 - 10:22 pm
Ok that second paragraph is really rather creepy.
I am sure (at least i hope) its not your intention, but that kind of talk doesnt do anything other than give credence to accusations that the SNP are a Fascist party.
#46 by Gerard on May 1, 2012 - 10:28 pm
I don’t think you can say that any other FM would’ve done the same after the Milly Dowler revelation – what do you base that on?
Salmond’s defence is that he was fighting for jobs. If this is the case then he should be able to answer the question that Douglas Fraser poses. I wonder why no SNP supporter on here has attempted to answer it?
Why does Murdoch monopolising BskyB to the extent he planned mean more jobs or securing jobs? The deal didn’t materialise so how many jobs have gone? If it had gone through how many jobs would we have had? If it was about the economic benefit of the deal for Scotland; why was Swinney not involved in discussions? Why were no civil servants involved? Did Salmond’s advisor overstep the mark by offering Salmond’s support ‘whenever’ needed?
#47 by Don McC on May 1, 2012 - 9:10 pm
As others have pointed out, the media loves talking about themselves so we can see why they are obsessed with this story. What about Labour? Why are they so obsessed. They can’t honestly believe this has any traction with the electorate so it’s purely a sign of their desperation, because what else do they have to offer?
Joanne was at the launch of their manifesto for North Lanarkshire council. Oh, they were so proud (bless). But closer scrutiny showed exactly what Labour have to offer the people of North Lanarkshire. One commitment, for example, was to support town centres by introducing free parking. Sounds great, except it’s only a matter of months since NLC have finished slapping parking charges on any patch of ground they could. If you stood still long enough, NLC were sticking a parking meter on you and now they claim how great they’ll be by scrapping the charges they’ve just introduced.
So you can see why they don’t want to concentrate on real election issues.
#48 by Iain Menzies on May 1, 2012 - 10:23 pm
Never mind parking, I want to know how NLC can justify spending more than £20 million replacing my old school!
#49 by Gerard on May 1, 2012 - 10:50 pm
You have the reason in your question:
‘my OLD school’
Your old school is now a new school. There’s the justification.
#50 by Iain Menzies on May 1, 2012 - 11:15 pm
Actually half of my old school was an old school, the other half was older….
They knocked down the older half, which ironically looked to be the younger of the two buildings, to build the new single building. Which means lots of porta cabins.
I dont have a problem with replacing, improving and renewing the school buildings in North Lanarkshire, what i do have a problem with is that they have spent so much money on it.
A school doesnt have to be anthing more than a large box subdivided into small boxes. This thing is much more complex than that. When half the roads in this town would look bad in mogadishu i would prefer they spent less on a fancy building and more on the roads.
Or even better, if they at least did something to improve standards. Of the people i know who still have a connection with the place, and from the bumf that has come through the door for the election the council doesnt seem to have done much beyond building a new block. Its not what it looks like its what happens inside.
#51 by Gerard on May 1, 2012 - 10:47 pm
I think you’ll find the pledge is to ‘maintain free parking’.
I’ll tell you some other things Labour are offering the people of NL:
1. 5000 jobs over the next 5 years
2. Continue to invest in our housing stock (through the kitchen, bathroom, roof rendering schemes)
3. Build 1000 more socially rented houses
4. Continue to invest in school infrastructure improvements
5. Fight for bus regulation and to reverse the Bus Service Operator Grant cuts the SNP have implemented
6. Continue to tackle anti-social behaviour
7. Invest in town centres (regeneration and attracting business)
These are just some of the things Labour are doing, will do and will continue to do for NL.
Let’s look at what the SNP propose in NL (the exact same as across Scotland as their manifesto is Scotland wide and therefore hardly ‘local’):
??? What are the SNP offering in NL? How many jobs? How many houses? How much will they put into town centre regeneration? Will NL SNP stand up to Holyrood SNP and their cuts to the BSOG and underfunding of the concessionary travel scheme? Will they carry out the bidding of Alex Neil and slash the number of staff in the Education department?
Have the SNP got anything positive to say about NL? Have they any ideas to tackle the problems faced in NL; problems created at a Holyrood level? Will they stand up against the undemocratic nature of their Holyrood policies?
Lets face it – the SNP have no ideas about how to tackle our problems in NL and they only want NLC and Glasgow for the scalp not to solve problems. In Glasgow they ‘haven’t thought about what they’ll do’. Will it be any better in NL?
#52 by Iain Menzies on May 1, 2012 - 11:17 pm
I think the problem for labour in NL isnt what they say they will do. Its that, with NL having been labour for as long as i can remember, ive seen what labour have done.
#53 by Don McC on May 2, 2012 - 7:54 am
Oh that’s right, it’s the SNP who’ll introduce free parking in our town centres. The rest of Labour’s manifesto looks cribbed from the SNP one (as always, when will Labour have an original idea of their own?) apart from things like tackling NL executives high pay (nothing to do with Labour cronyism, mind you).
NL does have a lot of problems. Labour’s record on tackling those problems isn’t one I’d shout from the roof tops. The SNP at least offer a change of tack that has a good chance of positively changing people’s lives for the better.
#54 by John Ruddy on May 2, 2012 - 6:48 pm
I presume you can point at the dates that the Labour manifesto in NL was published, and the date the SNP manifesto for Scotland was published to prove that?
Here in Angus, we have had introducing a Living wage as one of our policies for quite some time. Rubbished by the SNP. Until it appears in their national manifesto, and now suddenly we have “nicked” the idea from them?
I think this is yet another example of the SNP’s paranoia.
#55 by Barbarian on May 1, 2012 - 10:14 pm
Paranoia is the correct description. And as someone pointed out above, the victim mentality is failing.
In opposition, and then as a minority government, the SNP used the victim mentality to the full. And why not. It worked.
But….. when a party is the majority government, there is no hiding place. You cannot blame Westminster for ever.
As to Newsnet, while they highlight clear BBC bias, they themselves are seemingly obsessed with the BBC. Check out the comments on almost any article, and someone will steer the topic onto the BBC. Perhaps they would rather have Murdoch controlling things.
Peter Curran has posted an excellent article on his blog about the BBC and well worth reading.
#56 by HenBroon on May 1, 2012 - 10:27 pm
Is this Labour Hame? Your moderation of me is a joke man.
#57 by Jeff on May 1, 2012 - 11:01 pm
“Johan Lamont is hapless and utterly useless, she knows she is that is why she exploded in such a disgraceful un parliamentary manner.”
There’s nothing wrong with a bit of quality control when it comes to modding blogs. Feel free to disagree but I’m pretty sure Johann Lamont doesn’t consider herself to be “hapless and utterly useless”.
We’re not running a public service here at BN where anyone can say what they like about who they like and when they like.
#58 by HenBroon on May 2, 2012 - 11:37 am
no it’s a blog I’m also pretty sure Johan Lamont does not consider herself to be utterly useless and hapless, but a large number of us do why so precious on Lamont given the ire flung at the SNP and Alex Salmond?
If she can name call and sling around the personal abuse in the chamber, then she should not be surprised if it comes back to her.
Quality moderation? your having a laugh, but thanks for publishing my point nay way.
#59 by Jeff on May 2, 2012 - 11:50 am
“I’m also pretty sure Johan Lamont does not consider herself to be utterly useless and hapless”
Given that your original (trashed) comment was arguing the precise opposite of this, you can hopefully see, if not necessarily admit publicly, that it was right to not let the comment through.
I can assure you that if anyone left a comment stating Salmond believed himself to be hapless and useless then it’d be trashed. I don’t see that happening any time soon though such is the First Minister’s level of confidence and self-esteem.
#60 by Angus McLellan on May 2, 2012 - 1:24 am
Comments still open? Someone’s asleep at the wheel.
The Times has an interesting editorial today. Accuses Watson’s committee of “an abuse of power”. Watson – who should have demitted from the committee long since – comes in for some attention: “Mr Watson is entitled to his beliefs, steadfast or otherwise, but they have no business masquerading as findings.” And it praises Mensch. It also kicks the hypocrites elsewhere in the press, none of whom ever engaged in or solicited phone hacking, bribery or personation. No really. “From the outset, the phone hacking scandal has provided a useful piggyback for an anti-Murdoch agenda, advanced by politicians for political reasons and commercial rivals for commercial ones. It is shameful that Mr Watson has railroaded the committee into conflating the two.”
Normal service will now be resumed.
#61 by Allan on May 2, 2012 - 6:58 pm
The Times (Prop R Murdoch) has a pop at Murdoch “haters” shocker… and there are people here angry about the supposed bias of “Auntie”.
#62 by LieDetector on May 2, 2012 - 1:43 am
Questions to the writer of this article:
1. When was Salmond invited to BBC’s Question Time? When did he pull out? What was the reason given for pulling out? Was it genuine? Who replaced Salmond on the panel? Why wasn’t it an SNP representative?
You are trying to make out that Salmond pulled out to avoid answering questions about Murdoch which I think is a deliberate distortion. It would have been an excellent opportunity for Salmond to answer his hypocritical critics, like he did at First Minister’s questions, and he would not have missed it unless it was unavoidable.
2. Did you listen in full to Salmond’s answers to Lamont, Davidson and Rennie at First Minister’s Questions?
Like BBC Scotland, you are being totally biased by basing your article on the questions only and ignoring the answers given by Salmond. You have conveniently ‘forgotten’ to add that when questioned on TV, Lamont had been forced to admit that she too would have had to meet Murdoch to if she had been First Minister.
#63 by Jeff on May 2, 2012 - 7:26 am
Without being (too) cheeky. I think this comment highlights the paranoia rather than combats it.
1. I pointedly tried to make it sound like Salmond did not wimp out of BBCQT. Neither did I want to labour the point about his having to miss the show because of a family funeral as some things are off limits for public debate. I did mean to link to the news stories with more of the detail though so of that oversight somehow changed the intent of the opening lines then that’s my bad. I don’t think that’s the case though. Also, bbcqt is a much better pulpit than fmq so when I say it’s a “shame” I don’t mean it caustically or sarcastically, I mean it’s a genuine shame (over and above the significantly sadder reasons for having to miss out)
2. You seem to think this post is about whether Salmond has been right or wrong in his conduct with Murdoch. It isn’t. It’s about the SNP’s tone and style at the moment. Lamont admitting she’d have met Murdoch as FM has little to nothing to do with that.
#64 by John Ruddy on May 2, 2012 - 6:51 pm
I think the point is Johann said she “would have had to meet Murdoch”. Whereas Mr Salmond is obviously happy to speak up for him “whenever we need him to”, and is content being Murdoch’s court jester “I find him to be an amusing guy”.
#65 by Grahamski on May 2, 2012 - 7:47 am
The FM should give his media folk a right good kicking over their handling of this. He should give his political advisers a slap and while he’s at it he may as well give himself a couple of boots up the backside for good measure too because this has been one almighty disaster for the SNP.
When details of The FM and his agents offer to lobby in favour of Murdoch’s takeover of BSkyB at the Leveson Inquiry were revealed he could have shut it down there and then. Instead he dismissed it as mere ‘chatter’ then went to ground for 24 hours before coming up with an excuse which exploded in his face.
We’ve now got the ludicrous (for him) position of Alex Salmond arguing that it’s not for the Scottish Parliament to look into the Murdoch press illegally spying on a Scottish FM and but it’s a matter that would be better dealt with in London!
When the SNP start arguing that London is better placed to investigate illegal activity conducted against a Scottish First Minister you know there’s something not quite right….
#66 by scottish_skier on May 2, 2012 - 8:43 am
The public vote based on policies on offer, confidence that those policies will be delivered, competence in government etc. ‘Accused’ stories targetting specific individuals (or parties as a whole) only impact if they become ‘clearly found guilty of’, otherwise they have no effect or can actually boost support for the ‘accused’ if that person/party is generally popular. Negative personal attack politics only work if both sides use this approach with neither having a positive agenda/clear goals/offering something different. In that case people try to work out which is the least worse option to vote for if they vote at all.
I believe there will be a big Scotland-wide public opinion poll tomorrow with the results coming out Friday.
Based on historical evidence, Salmond/SNP ‘accused’ stories have generally resulted in poll boosts for the SNP. The rough rule of thumb is that the more intense the media barrage against the SNP/Salmond is, the higher vote shares they get in polls/on polling day – Think of how they soared from ~30% to 45% in around only a month in the approach to May 11 on the back of a positive campaign opposing a negative one.
I guess we shall see if this rule holds true again this time round on Friday.
Anyone want to make a prediction as to who will gain and who will lose? Based on polls, I know where my bets are going.
#67 by Grahamski on May 2, 2012 - 10:39 am
Mr Skier claims that teh SNP support rose from “30% to 45% in around only a month in the approach to May 11 on the back of a positive campaign opposing a negative one.”
He forgets to mention that the SNP had double the funds of the Labour Party and enjoyed the support of the biggest-selling tabloid and two of the biggest qualitites in Scotland.
Presumably the unrelenting personal attacks launched against Mr Gray was part of teh SNP’s ‘positive’ negative tactics?
#68 by scottish_skier on May 2, 2012 - 11:22 am
I presume you do not follow polls. The sun came on board on the 18th of April when the SNP were already polling 40-46% by the 9-15th, up from ~30% in mid February . The Sun commissioned a MORI poll (fieldwork carried out on 14-17th April so initial results ready for the Sun to make up their mind on the 17th) which gave the SNP 45%, confirming a Mail on Sunday poll which gave 46% and a Yougov (which tend to favour Labour due to PPA weighting methods) which gave 40%. Ergo, it was becoming very clear from poll data the SNP were going to win it so they backed them. The polls then continued to hover around the 45% mark on average right up to the election day when the result was 45% SNP. So it seems the Sun effect had no effect unless you think that 45-45 = more/less than zero?
Here’s the sun poll. They would have had the initial results on the 17th. MORI plotted it all up and released it on the 21st:
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2776/Scottish-Public-Opinion-Monitor-April-2011.aspx
Here’s the polling data for the period in question. You can see the rise I talked about happened well ahead of the Sun announcement and no clear change occurred afterwards.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/scottish-voting-intention
Sorry to disappoint you but there is no evidence it was the Sun that won it. Unless you have an alternative explanation?
If Labour lacked funds for its campaign that is hardly the fault of the SNP. Labour need to develop policies / a stance etc that are attractive to the electorate and so draw in more members/donations if they need a cash injection.
#69 by Grahamski on May 2, 2012 - 1:01 pm
Mr Ski,
The Sun had already started supporting the SNP long before a few weeks before the 2011 election. They had spent the previous few months conducting a vicious campaign against Iain Gray.
I don’t blame the SNP for having double the funds of their rivals.
I merely point out that having twice the amount of money to spend on your campaign and having the support of most of teh press may be a more important factor than the imagined ‘positive’ (hah!) campaign myth so beloved of those in the SNP.
#70 by Doug Daniel on May 2, 2012 - 1:54 pm
Wow, a year later and still some people can’t get over the result.
Labour could have had a billion pounds, but it wouldn’t have done a thing about Iain Gray’s gaffe-prone campaign or their poor policy commitments. The Subway incident was priceless in every sense of the word, and as soon as Labour backtracked on the council tax freeze and university fees, they might as well have thrown the towel in.
All money did was allow the SNP to make a nice shiny PPB and hire a helicopter.
#71 by John Ruddy on May 2, 2012 - 6:54 pm
If you look at the breakdown in spending (and Aidan did exactly this some while back) you’ll see the SNP also spent their money more wisely – why they were able to do so you can argue about. But it was certainly more than a nice shiny PPB (which I am sure many nationalists were calling a “game changer” on twitter at the time) and a helicopter.
#72 by Indy on May 2, 2012 - 9:26 pm
On the substance of Jeff’s post – I don’t think the SNP are paranoid. Paranoia is the false belief that people are out to get you and looking for any chink in your armour. If the SNP Government and MSPs DIDN’T think that people were out to get them and find any chink in their armour they would be living in a state of false confidence. Whether it is the media or opposition the very scale of the SNP’s success last year means that a whole host of people would love to score a direct hit. They are such a big target. So paranoia doesn’t come into it.
As regards Kate Higgins comments about Geoff Aberdein possibly she has read the same tweets from journalists I have indicating that Kevin Pringle is the real target. Like Kate probably I remember Kevin when he was the one-man press and research department at SNP HQ. And what an incredible job he did and continues to do. He is someone held in enormous esteem and affection by the party and yes people would get a bit paranoid maybe at the idea that the media have set him up as their number one scalp. We are only human after all.