The members of the commission set up by the UK government into the West Lothian Question have been announced.
The commission will be chaired by former House of Commons clerk Sir William McKay and is made up of non-partisan experts with “constitutional, legal and parliamentary expertiseâ€.
The rest of the panel are senior parliamentary lawyer Sir Stephen Laws, his predecessor Sir Geoffrey Bowman; the UK’s former ambassador to the UN, Sir Emyr Jones Parry, as well as two academics, Professor Charlie Jeffrey, the head of social and political science at Edinburgh University, and Professor Yvonne Galligan, a researcher in gender politics at Queen’s University Belfast.
Ever since the 1970s the West Lothian Question has plagued parliamentary relations between the nations of the UK. First posed by Tam Dalyell, then MP for West Lothian, it queried how a Scottish MP at Westminster post-devolution could vote upon policies affecting English seats, when that same MP could not vote on the same issue affecting his or her own constituency because it would have been devolved to a Scottish Parliament.
Today, the question more commonly challenges how Scottish MPs (and Welsh and Northern Irish members) continue to vote upon English matters while MPs from England have lost the power to influence the same policies, now devolved to the nations. There have been previous attempts to remedy the situation – notably reducing the number of Scottish MPs – but the discrepancy became particularly stark under the last Labour government, where Labour’s MPs from Scottish constituencies enabled the passing of controversial legislation for England like foundation hospitals and tuition fees.
The commission has been tasked, by the original coalition agreement drawn up between the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, with recommending new ground rules for MPs on the Westminster Question. It will not cover financing, or the number of MPs: its purpose is rather to recommend a solution to the problem of who votes on parliamentary business covering England in Westminster that is under the auspices of the devolved assemblies elsewhere.
It seems unlikely that the commission will settle on all or nothing.
Burke’s dictum that “You choose a member, indeed; but when you have chosen him, he is not member of Bristol, but he is a member of Parliament” won’t soothe the sense of injustice after over a decade of Scottish MPs dictating domestic policy for England. Nor is Pete Wishart MP’s suggestion, speaking on the announcement of the commission members, that “There is only one clear answer to the West Lothian Question and that is for both Scotland and England to be fully in charge of their affairs by becoming independent and equal nationsâ€, likely to gain the approval of the coalition government at the moment.
So with neither all MPs voting on everything, or no Scottish MPs at all being outcomes the commission is likely to reach, one possible solution is a ‘gentleman’s agreement’, whereby MPs from devolved nations refrain from voting on matters pertaining to England alone, as SNP MPs do at the moment. It was the aim of Conservative backbencher Harriet Baldwin’s Legislation (Territorial Extent) private member’s bill, which fell at its third reading last September, largely due to Ministers preferring the commission to be left to do its work.
I doubt MPs representing devolved constituencies will enjoy being relegated to not quite full Members of Parliament, meaning the restriction on voting will have to be made mandatory rather than voluntary. The archaic divisions in the House of Commons, coupled with the ways votes are called, could make implementing this a nightmare, although that indicates to me the need for more reform of the practices of parliament rather than an insurmountable obstacle in and of itself.
An alternative solution is federalism: an English chamber for discussing English issues. Sittings in Westminster Hall could change to focus on such legislation and only MPs from English constituencies would attend. It’s a reasonable option, soothing some of the issues West Lothian Question poses.
The Question of course only arises because of power moving closer to the people, or at least for people living in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Restricting what legislation certain MPs can vote on might resolve the Question in neat terms of day-to-day House of Commons life, but it does little to right the fundamental imbalance in power and influence which drove Dalyell’s original point.  Each nation’s representatives legislating on issues affecting that nation alone naturally brings more power and influence to all people in the UK. Whether the commission on the West Lothian Question will recommend this solution, at a time when most parties at Westminster oppose constitutional changes like independence for Scotland, will be interesting to see.
#1 by BaffieBox on January 18, 2012 - 8:14 am
In fairness, the SNP members have voted in English matters but only where there was a Barnett consequential (tuition fees I think was one). Because of this, it is not always quite as clear cut as English-only legislation as there could be block grant implications. Which I guess highlights one of the problems of this commission if it will not consider financial issues as a result of any changes.
Again, it only underlines IMO that the Union is a constitutional mess and there is no tangible will to properly address these problems. As with Barnett, the commission will be a minimal fudge that will be a quick fix rather than considered and stable solution. I was always taught, that if you are going to fix something, you do it right or you’ll do it twice (or thrice, etc).
The Union has been resorting to sticky plasters for years and is running out.
#2 by Martinb on January 18, 2012 - 8:15 am
Tell you what, they can have their gentleperson’s agreement in say 200 years, to balance out the pre-devolution times when English MPs outvoted devolved nations’ MPs as a matter of course.
#3 by John Ruddy on January 18, 2012 - 9:47 pm
Outvoted? That doesnt even make sense in the 2 party system which dominated history.
Have you forgotten that the only party to win more than 50% of the vote in an election in Scotland (including May 2011) was the Tories in 1955?
Whatever system is used, some MPs from a devolved nation will be outvoted, unless all the devolved nations MPs form the government of the day.
#4 by Thomas Widmann on January 18, 2012 - 9:10 am
Much as I’d prefer independence, if a solution needs to be found, it needs to involve the creation of an English Parliament. Yes, it could consist of the English members of the UK Parliament, rather than creating more politicians, and yes, it could meet in Westminster, too, although it might make things clearer if they met elsewhere.
However, I believe (although I don’t know the figures) that the majority of legislation at Westminster is relating to England, so it would probably be better to elect the English Parliament first, and then have the English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish parliaments/assemblies send representatives to the UK Parliament, if one wants to avoid separate elections for the latter.
As you pointed out, many pieces of legislation cannot be said to be purely English at the moment, partly because of Barnett consequentials, partly because of other bits of importance for the rest of the UK. To eliminate this problem, full fiscal autonomy for each of the four countries in the UK would be advantageous. The UK Parliament could then pass laws setting the framework, and the devolved nations (incl. England) could then fill out the blanks and increase taxes if needed.
#5 by Richard on January 18, 2012 - 9:53 am
An English Parliament might be one idea, but then it gets rather complicated, as some issues are devolved to Edinburgh but not Belfast or Cardiff. Others are devolved to Edinburgh and Belfast but not Cardiff, while another is devolved to Belfast but not Edinburgh or Cardiff.
Independence for Scotland would certainly solve most of the issues!
#6 by Thomas Widmann on January 18, 2012 - 10:04 am
Another issue is that I’ve never really understood why Scotland needed fewer MPs post-devolution. To my mind, we needed the same number of MPs voting on fewer issues, not a smaller number voting on the same issues as before.
The effect is that Scotland now has more influence on devolved matters than before (because the MPs can vote on these issues for England, and the MSPs can decide them for Scotland), but Scotland’s influence on foreign, defence and other reserved areas has diminished.
If there was a proper, federal UK Parliament dealing only with reserved matters (because there was an English Parliament, too), one would expect Scotland’s vote share there to go back up to where it was pre-devolution.
Actually, there’s a school of thought that the best way to determine the representation is to take the square root of the population. If we uses the following population figures: England: 50,762,900, Scotland: 5,116,900, Wales: 2,958,600, Northern Ireland: 1,710,300, take the square root and work out the percentages, we get England: 57%, Scotland: 18%, Wales: 14% and Northern Ireland: 11%. I think those figures would make a good basis for a proper UK federal Parliament.
#7 by Doug Daniel on January 18, 2012 - 1:29 pm
A federal solution only works if each of the four nations is given equal representation; otherwise, as far as I can see, it’s no different from the current situation.
It’s just one big mess, and the problem with trying to solve it is that the question isn’t “what’s the best way to solve this?” but rather “what’s the best way of solving this while retaining the union?” Not only does this rule out the most obvious, neatest and best solution (full independence for all four nations), but it also stops them going near alternatives that look a bit too much like independence for their liking. To my mind, the only way of solving this while retaining the four nations in the union is to have each nation with a completely devolved parliament, and then instead of electing MPs for Westminster, the four parliaments just send their MSPs/AMs/whatevers (or a representation of them – maybe not send all 129 MSPs) to Westminster to discuss reserved stuff. Anything else is just a half-arsed measure. We can’t carry on with Scottish MPs having a say on devolved matters, but equally we can hardly elect what are effectively part-time politicians (unless they get part-time pay too…?)
And of course, it will only get worse without independence, because there is no way Scotland’s powers are staying as they are. The only thing that will beat independence is a mass handover of powers to Holyrood, leaving very little in Westminster hands.
#8 by Indy on January 18, 2012 - 12:21 pm
We can see a (non-legislative) example of the kind of fankle Scottish MPs get themselves into with the latest row about Scottish Labour MPs voting for a motion which begins:
“That this House believes there is an important role for the private sector in supporting the delivery of NHS care..”
31 Scottish Labour MPs voted for that including Anas Sarwar and Margaret Curran. And you just have to ask yourself why? Because they don’t really believe that. The Scottish Labour Party surely doesn’t believe that so why would they vote for it? Of course it is understandable in a Westminster context because the UK Labour Party as a whole believes that and the purpose of the motion was actually to say that the Tory NHS privatisation was going too far. But supporting that position required Scottish MPs to sign up to a position that they don’t really support. It would surely be far better for them not to have to do that.
#9 by Aidan on January 18, 2012 - 2:09 pm
The NHS has always had private sector involvement, unless you want to build a nationalised pharmaceutical and medical technology industry and never buy those things in…
#10 by Indy on January 18, 2012 - 3:46 pm
Come on, that is not what the motion is about. I will copy it in full if you like:
That this House believes there is an important role for the private sector in supporting the delivery of NHS care; welcomes the contribution made by private providers to the delivery of the historic 18-week maximum wait for NHS patients; recognises a need, however, for agreed limits on private sector involvement in the NHS; notes with concern the Government’s plans to open up the NHS as a regulated market, increasing private sector involvement in both commissioning and provision of NHS services; urges the Government to revisit its plans, learning from the recent problems with PIP implants and the private cosmetic surgery industry; believes its plan for a 49 per cent. private income cap for Foundation Trusts, in the context of the hospitals as autonomous business units and a ‘no bail-outs’ culture, signals a fundamental departure from established practice in NHS hospitals; fears that the Government’s plans will lead to longer waiting times, will increase health inequalities and risk putting profits before patients; is concerned that this House has not been given an opportunity to consider such a significant policy change; and calls on the Government to revise significantly downwards its proposed cap on the level of private income that can be generated by NHS hospitals.
Just remind us – who introduced Foundation Hospitals and all that palaver? And who farmed out an increasing number of NHS operations and procedures to the private sector?
Note I am not accusing Scottish Labour of having anything to do with that – it’s just about the problem of them taking a stand or getting involved in an area which is different north/south of border and where there are different Labour policies in place.
#11 by James Macdonald on January 18, 2012 - 1:48 pm
The answer is blindingly obvious.
#12 by gavin on January 18, 2012 - 7:39 pm
The main problem is that our Southern friends dont really think there is a problem, just the Jocks getting a bit lippy.
Even further South, they imagine all problems can be solved by more infrastructure spending round London.
#13 by RaggedRobin on January 19, 2012 - 4:38 am
“The main problem is that our Southern friends dont really think there is a problem, just the Jocks getting a bit lippy.
Even further South, they imagine all problems can be solved by more infrastructure spending round London.”
Good grief don’t you ever get your head out of your sporran? The English are far more likely to send you packing than you are to pack your bags in the first place. We know the problem, we have known it since Blair and Brown – the Foundation Hospitals were pushed through on the votes of the Scottish MP’s – as were the University Top up Fees; a fact ignored by the sanctimonious Salmond. Comments like yours leave me with the grim determination that soon, hopefully very soon we can be shot of you – even if you don’t really wish to untie yourself from Nanny’s apron string.s Jeez God give me patience.
#14 by gavin on January 19, 2012 - 3:07 pm
13-I stand by what I have written. We have had a constitutional debate for some time in Scotland. England has now noticed and joined in, but their contribution seems to me to be both patronising and condescending. Why is Salmond sactimonious? You must realise that he could do nothing about Scottish MPs, of different political parties, voting on issues that affected Scotland in a negative way except disaprove. On the question of infrastucture spending, I think you will find people in north and west England are also sickened by the relentless bias of Government spending in the south-east. I hope your patience is rewarded soon and you will be shot of me!
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