There are two types of objections that political parties tend to raise against their opposition.
The first is delightful objection. This takes the form of the fake outrage, the calls for suspensions, the stormy press releases when you know your political enemies have stuffed up and you can solemnly delight in their dismay. We have seen a lot of this this week. It won’t have been enjoyable for Eilidh Whiteford to have been threatened with ‘getting a doing’, if that is even what transpired, but there is surely no doubt that central SNP will have been secretly pleased at the opportunity to publicly bash a senior MP over the head with the story. Going the other way, Labour have been busy firing out emails claiming how insulted they have been by the conduct of SNP activists (who are suddenly more senior than they’d otherwise have been if they hadn’t let a comment or two get out of hand). Gail Lythgoe and David Linden will hopefully be reminding themselves that today’s newspapers are tomorrow’s fish supper wrappers, as a wise person once said.
It’s all puff though of course, and it’s the kind of nonsense that politicos delight in even while it pushes the public further away.
The second type of objection that members of political parties tend to raise is the genuinely angry rebuttal. The hairs stand on edge, the teeth grind and the passion spills over into real rhetoric, real emotion around the whys and wherefores of where an opponent has gone wrong. The reason for this energy is typically due to the supposed wrongdoer actually having hit a nerve and that is almost always due to there being a big old grain of truth to their argument.
No-one holds more examples of eliciting this kind of reaction in Scottish Politics than Tom Harris. His blogs, his Twitter feed and even some mainstream news stories show this.
For that reason, and for several others, Tom is my suggestion for who Labour should vote for when they are deciding who to select as their next leader.
The other reasons include the following:
– In my humble opinion, Tom Harris is intellectually superior to his opponents and West Wing episodes alone shows how important such a factor is when it comes to political leadership. That’s not to disparage his opponents or MSPs in general, and it’s not Westminster-inspired snobbery above Holyrood. It’s just a straight-up compliment that it’s clear from Tom’s online presence and his book (well worth a read) that he has a big old brain in his head and he is not afraid to use it
– Tom has Cabinet experience from his time serving in Tony Blair’s top team. That blooding in of how to run an office, how to handle the media, how to work with enemies (within and without your party) must surely be a massive boost to anyone who is next in line to juggle all the different complicated tasks facing the next leader of Labour in Scotland. The inbox includes managing Labour in Scotland’s relationship with Westminster/Ed Miliband, choosing and sticking to a strategic position on the independence referendum, maintaining and building on Labour’s base in next year’s Council elections, somehow nobbling Salmond’s deserved position as the king of all that he surveys and, last but not least, reasserting what it is that Labour in Scotland is actually for (as opposed to what it is against, which seems to be lots of things!)
– Tom is steadfastly opposed to Devo Max and rightly so. This is an issue that draws that genuine anger from Nationalists because they know deep down it is the best play for Labour. The argument that further powers being passed to Holyrood should be a slow and refining process is a convincing one (and one that I have to thank Aidan for making me aware of via an earlier post). The other potential leaders look set to meekly adopt Devo Max as an option but the strategy is ill thought-through. A No result from a straight Yes-No would be a body blow for the SNP that would leave them reeling during a Salmond-less devolution defeat in 2016 and a long way beyond. Yes, there is talent in Team SNP but how can you hold the Nats together as a happy group when you know independence is not an option for another generation? Tom gets that, and could deliver it.
– Also, thinking practically, Tom Harris could in time quite easily be parachuted into Holyrood through a swap deal with a sitting MSP and it’s safe to say that the more talent that Labour can get into Holyrood the better, given that is where Scotland is looking to for political leadership.
But it is Tom’s ability to draw genuine ire from his opponents that sets him apart. A political leader that doesn’t pull his punches and commands the support of his team is a fearsome combination. Most leaders have the latter but not the former whereas Tom has things the other way around. He would say the unsayable and think the unthinkable in order to stop the SNP in its tracks and, given the softly-softly approach isn’t working so well, perhaps taking someone out of left field isn’t such a bad idea (one of the few occasions you’ll see ‘Tom’ and ‘left’ in the same sentence).
The biggest risk to Labour, a risk that we saw with Gordon Brown and Iain Gray and we are probably seeing right now with Ed Miliband, is that they may end up choosing a leader that they know deep down can’t win the next election but the party is too collectively paralysed by inertia, by ennui, to do anything about it. It’s over four long years until the next Scottish Parliament election and I suspect two of the three Labour candidates would be effectively lame ducks throughout FMQs, throughout budget debates and throughout the independence referendum, right up to Holyrood 2016.
For Labour, there’s no smoke without fire and since Ken Macintosh and Johann Lamont fail to generate light let alone any heat around their campaign, Tom Harris, love him or loathe him, is the only leadership candidate that can put some flames back into Labour’s belly.
Labour needs to shed off its deep-seated risk-averse nature and back Tom 4 Scotland’s campaign.
So, any objections?
#1 by James on November 4, 2011 - 7:24 am
Far too rightwing. The Nats have made a good political living talking left and acting right (see @3psteve’s piece for a classic example). Tom would attack from the right, which is bonkers. Even Tim Montgomery knows a bit of sticking up for the people is essential.
Divisive inside Labour. Not one MSP nomination? That also means unelectable, because if you think our friends in the unions will back a Blairite outrider..
Loose cannon. Comparing the independence question to the American Civil War on Twitter, for instance. Or monstering single mothers. Trolling can be funny but it’s not leadership.
Sorry Tom. Jeff did ask for the objections. I’m just telling it how I see it.
#2 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 9:54 am
Well, I don’t think you’ve picked great examples there James on the supposed ‘trolling’ to be honest.
‘Monstering’ bad mothers wasn’t how I saw it at all. Pointing out that a lifetime on benefits is far from ideal and not appreciating anything beyond that lifestyle is precisely the type of difficult job that politicians should be getting on with, even if it’s beset by people on the left ready to bludgeon them for doing so with scare stories. There’s plenty of kids out there who don’t expect to work when they’re older because they are just not used to seeing a parent wake up and go out to earn a living. That’s not monstering anyone, it’s just how it is.
As for the American Civil War debate; I don’t see these Twitter debates as a factor to be honest. Who sees them? 500 people out of a country of 5 million? And even then, I think you’ve misunderstood the angle that Tom was making comparisons with (we don’t need to rehash the hullabaloo here of course). I saw it as a valid if self-indulgent comparison, you obviously didn’t.
Also, I know that Tom has built up this right-winger tag but I don’t really know where it’s come from. Anyway, maybe a bit of relative right-wingery might not be such a bad idea. Scotland might be to the left of rUK but it’s far from being a Socialist collective. Take Ed Miliband, the lefties choice. Don’t you think that David would be doing a better job right now if he was at the helm? Going left might make people feel better but it’s not always the best choice.
And anyway, there’s two considerations – (1) is Tom Harris the perfect candidate and (2) is Tom Harris the best of the three. The answer to (1) is undoubtedly no. The answer to (2), I would wager, is Yes.
(And you’re biased cos you have a tenner on Ken at 400/1 or something!)
#3 by James on November 4, 2011 - 11:02 am
Ed’s not left! Ed’s crap! Both brothers are dreadful – last time I saw David speak it was a garble of clichés and nonsense.
#4 by Allan on November 4, 2011 - 10:53 pm
I agree with James. Ed’s not Left Wing. He has mastered the Brown trick of delivering a New Labour message using the language of old Labour…
#5 by Rev. S. Campbell on November 4, 2011 - 7:28 am
Harris might have the intellect but he doesn’t have the temperament. You only have to glance at his antics as “admin” on Labour Hame or watch a few Twitter conversations to see how chippy and juvenile he gets when anyone bites back at him. Salmond would make absolute mince of him.
Also, can you imagine how much hay the SNP would make out of Scottish Labour being led by someone without a Holyrood seat, and who wasn’t backed by a single MSP in the leadership contest? That duck isn’t just lame, it’s paraplegic. Imagine the humiliation for whichever poor sap has to stand up and be his mouthpiece at FMQs every week – especially if, as could easily happen, the new deputy leader is a Westminster MP too.
In a straight fight, Harris might well be the best candidate. In the real-life circumstances, Labour might as well pick *Keith* Harris, with Orville as his No.2 for good measure.
#6 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 9:58 am
Well, who knows who the ‘admin’ on any site is. And I don’t think comparing behaviour on Twitter/blogs with conduct in the Parliament is all that valid. We know Salmond has a fiery temper and Gordon Brown too, they always kept it pretty well checked.
You make a fair point about no MSPs backing him but that, for me, is the MSPs’ error and not Tom’s. It doesn’t mean you should be discounted from the race because Holyrood is being preferred to Westminster. As Tom said, it’s odd that MPs are allowed into the race when they don’t seem to be allowed to win it.
#7 by Doug Daniel on November 4, 2011 - 10:29 am
I think it’s all but confirmed by the man himself that Tom is the Admin on LabourHame. James Kelly has been following events closely over there.
#8 by Erchie on November 4, 2011 - 11:17 am
Sorry
Duncan Hothersall outed Admin a while back, it’s Tom Harris
The level of his intellectual rigour is not publishing posts that answer his ‘unanswerable’ questions
Oh, and pointing out that the FM is a bit chubby
If some of ‘Admin’s’ antics had been done by anyone with any standing in the SNP they would have been hounded by the press
Harris comes across as a typical bully I am afraid, gives it but cannot take it
#9 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 11:20 am
So would you prefer Ken or Johann instead?
#10 by Erchie on November 4, 2011 - 11:42 am
Johann doesn’t impress if you catch her on the hop
Ken? Makes no impression, you’d have to find someone who knows him better, I can’t judge.
If Jackie Baillie could give up playing games I think she might have potential, but I think so many years gurning behind Iain Gray have poisoned her
I think Labour need a caretaker Leader until they re-establish themselves, one who can take the sting away from other parties, so that they don’t have someone they can cast as a puppet or nonentity
But no way in hell is Malcolm Chisholm going to get the job
#11 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 11:49 am
So your choice from Tom, Ken and Johann is…. Jackie Baillie.
I think you’ve neatly backed my point that it’s all very well shooting holes in Tom Harris but, at the end of the day, Labour has to choose one of the three people as leader. As was noted earlier by Cassius C with a great line – it’s a dilemma, not a choice.
#12 by Erchie on November 4, 2011 - 12:30 pm
That’s not what I said
I said if I had to pick any Labour MSP I’d pick Chisholm, thinking from a Labour perspective of rebuilding Party infrastructure and support
If I think from an SNP perspective, I’d pick Tom Harris in a flash, because I think it would do the SNP great favours
#13 by R.G. Bargie on November 4, 2011 - 12:06 pm
It’s not about “preference”, as I don’t think many of us are Labour voters and what we’d prefer and what would be good for Labour aren’t necessarily the same thing. But McIntosh is the only one who stands a chance of at least slowing Labour’s terminal decline. Lamont will be suicide among more aspirational middle-class New Labourish types, and Harris electoral poison among the Old Labour core. McIntosh won’t scare any horses, and from the dire selection on offer that’s about the best Labour can hope for.
#14 by @dhothersall on November 4, 2011 - 1:49 pm
I should clarify that in common with many sites, LabourHame is co-administered by a number of people, and while Tom is certainly among that number he is not alone. Admin posts are the voice of LabourHame, not necessarily of an individual.
Hope that helps. 🙂
#15 by Erchie on November 4, 2011 - 9:49 pm
Not quite
Because it does not answer the main point. the Admin of the allegedly “unanswerable questions” who refused to let the answers go through, whom James Kelly of Scot goes Pop skewered beautifully, THAT was Tom Harris, yes/no?
The admin who posted spoof speeches/articles purporting to come from the FM, that was Harris, Yes/no?
because it was, and there is the measure of the man
Unless you want to name OTHER Labourhame folks posting childish insults under the cover of articles there
#16 by Allan on November 5, 2011 - 12:25 am
What!?! I’m not the only person to be knocked back by “Bouncer” Harris?
#17 by Alasdair Stephen on November 4, 2011 - 7:52 am
Jeff it’s not true to say that independence would be lost for a generation if the referendum vote us not won. The SNP would seek a new mandate at the earliest opportunity. It will not be up to a retired Salmond – it would be up to the people. Anyway, the referendum wil be won as the alternative will not be acceptable.
#18 by James on November 4, 2011 - 8:48 am
Love it. If the referendum is lost, it will be the people’s will to keep banging on about it. Seriously?
#19 by Rev. S. Campbell on November 4, 2011 - 9:13 am
Do you think the idea of electoral reform is dead forever, then? Should the Electoral Reform Society just pack their bags and shut up shop?
#20 by James on November 4, 2011 - 9:53 am
Nope, although their aim – proportional voting – has never been offered to the British people in a referendum. And if it was, and they lost, they shouldn’t pack up forever, but they should certainly not annoy everyone by agitating for another one in quick succession.
#21 by Doug Daniel on November 4, 2011 - 9:56 am
Come on James, do you think people who really believe in independence are going to just give up? There would need to be an almighty “no” vote to stand even a chance of that happening – I’m talking over 80% here, and we all know that’s not going to happen.
All that will happen is those voices in favour of independence will become louder and more impatient.
#22 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 10:04 am
I would personally be very disappointed in the SNP if that was the case Alasdair. You can’t reasonably lose a nation-defining referendum and then ask for another go at it within, well, at least a decade. Going by your argument, the unionists could hold a referendum on rejoining the UK a matter of years after we voted Yes to independence?
No, the SNP would get rightly pilloried and punished if they kept pushing for a referendum if they lose this one, by the politicians and by the people. By all means argue in favour of independence, but the referendum would be off the table.
#23 by An Duine Gruamach on November 4, 2011 - 10:50 am
It’d be like after 1979 – the agitation for independence would still be there, but it’d take a while to build up a head of steam again.
#24 by R.G. Bargie on November 4, 2011 - 11:59 am
“You can’t reasonably lose a nation-defining referendum and then ask for another go at it within, well, at least a decade.”
The Irish did on Lisbon. Barely over a year, in fact. Not that I’m in favour, just noting that it can happen and has happened.
#25 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 12:05 pm
They didn’t “ask for another go”, they were bullied into it by their EU partners as they were needing a bailout.
#26 by R.G. Bargie on November 4, 2011 - 12:07 pm
The reasons don’t really matter. Point is, a government can get away with having the same referendum twice in 18 months, and even get a different result the second time.
#27 by Alasdair Stephen on November 4, 2011 - 1:48 pm
Ten years is fine – but that’s not a generation. In fact noone has ever explained to me how long a generation actually is? Maybe 10 years is a generation. Anyway, what is certain is that a new generation will take over the SNP and they will be more determined than ever to win independence and no doubt seek a mandate from the electorate.
The referendum will be won though – I’m sure of that. I just think the prospect of continued Tory rule and cuts will not be acceptable to the Scottish people. That’s all that’s on offer at the moment unless one of the Unionist parties embrace Devo Max. Can’t see that happening though.
#28 by R.G. Bargie on November 4, 2011 - 2:19 pm
As far as I know a generation is usually considered to be 25 years, ie roughly the average time a person takes from birth until they generate their own children.
#29 by Indy on November 4, 2011 - 3:25 pm
It all depends on the circumstances. If the independence option was defeated overwhelmingly then that would be one thing but if it was a very close vote that would be another. You could conceivably have a second referendum fairly quickly in those circumstances, though I would think it would be on Devo Max rather than full independence.
#30 by Robbie Pennington on November 4, 2011 - 4:16 pm
What a strange position to take, that because you lose a referendum at a single point in time you shouldn’t be able to have another one for 10+ years!
The reality must be that it would depend on many things, mostly the mood of the electorate, but also the nature of politics, government and events post-referendum. The time is right when the time is right, not by reference to some arbitrary time frame.
#31 by Indy on November 4, 2011 - 8:01 am
I should start off by saying that I like Tom Harris. I disagree with him politically but I think he is a clever guy, a funny guy and actually quite a decent guy. But Labour won’t vote for him. Here’s why:
1. He has too often sparked controversy by tweeting or commenting before he thinks. I would give as an example of that comments he made about the Norway terrorist atrocity which seemed to rest on an assumption that the terrorist was Islamic. Fair enough, a lot of people thought that and tweeted that but a politician should always wait until they know the facts before commenting on anything.He doesn’t always do that. He also spends too much time online arguing with SNP folks – a complete waste of time since none of them are going to change their minds. That’s a rookie error for a politican to make. You don’t waste your time arguing with people who will never vote for you.
2.He may have Cabinet experience in Westminster but he has no experience in the Scottish Parliament/Executive and is disliked by MSPs. That would make it extremely difficult for him to lead them. The comparison with Alex Salmond leading the SNP as an MP falls down on that point – Alex led with the full support of the MSP group, Tom Harris doesn’t have that. As part of this, he is a newcomer to the Devo Max debate and doesn’t “get” it. For example he has suggested that a continuing review of devlution should consider returning powers to Westminster as well as perhaps devolving new powers. That shows his institutional mindset is centred on Westminster not Holyrood. That’s part of why the MSPs don’t like him or trust him.
3. Another part of the reason I think the MSP group don’t particularly like him is because, as James said, he is too right wing. He is very right wing really, far more so than anyone else in mainstream Scottish Labour.
4. He hates the SNP – you might say that they all do but that wouldn’t be true. Johann Lamont for example is I think making a genuine effort to find a different way to move forward that is not based on despising the SNP and all its stands for.
5. He has said that he intends to win Cathcart back from the SNP. He wouldn’t though. If you look at the Glasgow South result for example it was of course a good one in an election that Labour walked nationally. But the increase in the SNP vote there was higher than elsewhere in Glasgow. And the SNP had also won the seat at the Euro elections in 2010. People could see the plates starting to shift there and that became very evident when Cathcart fell to the SNP in 2011. It’s not going to go back to Labour unless there is a massive swing back to Labour nationally.
6. He is regardef by many in Labour as disloyal. Remember his comments about Gordon Brown – which as I recall followed on from the SNP winning Glasgow South in the euro election. That caused a lot of bad feeling, there was even a move in his CLP to move a motion of no confidence in him. So he has enemies – and not that many friends.
7. One of the things I heard about the leadership hustings is that there was one wee guy who asked all the contenders for both the leader and deputy leader what’s your contact rate (well done that man). Apparently there was only one candidate who did not answer. I don’t know who it was but I would be willing to bet it was Tom Harris.
So for all those reasons I feel safe in saying that Labour won’t elect him as their leader.
My guess is that it will be Johann Lamont as leader and Anas Sarwar as deputy.
#32 by R.G. Bargie on November 4, 2011 - 9:33 am
“My guess is that it will be Johann Lamont as leader and Anas Sarwar as deputy.”
Sarwar has a good shot at deputy, but I’ve got all my money on Ken McIntosh as leader, because I can’t believe that even Scottish Labour are QUITE insane enough to pick either of the other two.
Harris’ failings have been pointed out perceptively by others, so let’s look at Lamont. I wish I could remember who penned the piece in one of the English broadsheets back in March or early April this year, when Labour were still miles ahead in the polls for Holyrood, flatly stating that the SNP would definitely win because the public never, ever elects parties with weak leaders. (I’m sure they would have referenced Neil Kinnock, Iain Duncan Smith etc.)
Completely regardless of what her talents might or might not be, Lamont is seen by the public as a nippy sweetie. I remember her making a complete idiot of herself on the telly over The Battle Of Subway and Asdagate. To be fair, she was fighting an impossible position in both cases, but that’s the point – most of her media appearances have been as a sacrificial lamb, when Gray or Baker or Kerr got themselves in such a mess that they couldn’t defend something themselves because it would have annihilated their credibility, so poor Johann was shoved into the firing line instead. (This is a standard Labour tactic – remember Gray himself, evicerated on Newsnight Scotland over Wendy’s “bring it on” fiasco?)
McIntosh is a new boy with no baggage, he hasn’t had time to make a lot of enemies, he dials down the obvious Nat-bashing, he looks presentable and he has quite a posh voice. He also isn’t a massive liability like Harris, and so more or less by default he’s the only option for Scottish Labour that isn’t completely mental. He will win, or Labour will destroy itself.
#33 by Indy on November 4, 2011 - 9:54 am
She is seen as a nippy sweetie – but it’s not that long ago that Nicola Sturgeon was seen by the media as a nippy sweetie. And yes I don’t think she is a natural leader – but I do think she is most in tune with the values of Labour members. And it’s the members who decide this.
I could be completely wrong of course, I’m basically just going by what my Labour friends are thinking.
#34 by R.G. Bargie on November 4, 2011 - 12:00 pm
I’m intrigued by the censorship of my previous post. I was in no way attacking Johann Lamont, merely pointing out a fact of political life.
#35 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 12:05 pm
It was a close call and arguably a valid point that you were making but disparaging comments about anyone’s appearance are an automatic no-no as far as I’m concerned. I’m just gentlemanly like that…
#36 by BaffieBox on November 4, 2011 - 8:45 am
Pretty much what James said. His online persona demonstrates an unhealthy dislike for the SNP, and while that perfectly sums up the problem with Labour in general, Labour need to sort this out if they are ever to get back in the game. The general hatred of the SNP is holding them and therefore Scotland back.
Also disagree with the following…
The argument that further powers being passed to Holyrood should be a slow and refining process is a convincing one…
While this is probably a whole separate debate, that’s the actual problem, not the solution! The whole political ethos in the UK appears to be short term solutions, sticky plasters, gentle nudges, knee jerks, bolt-ons to appease a lobby group, treat-the-symptom-not-the-problem, etc, etc. Each and every time, it’s a case of doing the absolute minimum to address a problem without bringing the house of cards down. Devolution, the Barnett formula, Calman, Scotland Bill… each an every one devised to treat a symptom without ever, ever treating the problem. And the end result each time has been bad legislation – more often than not and in some cases admitted by it’s sponsor, as being devised on the back of a fag packet. A win for Tom Harris is a win for this kind of politics – do as little as possible in the hope the problem will go away.
Also, thinking practically, Tom Harris could in time quite easily be parachuted into Holyrood through a swap deal with a sitting MSP.”
I probably disagree with this statement most of all. Wrong on so many levels. We cant just swap an MP and an MSP when we feel like it. They were elected in a democratic election to their current parliaments and they have no mandate in any other form in any other institution. If they want to swap, I would expect to see two by-elections. Parties should not and cannot abuse the system in this way. If this is a problem for Labour, they only have themselves to blame. And Id say exactly the same if this were the SNP or any other party.
He would say the unsayable and think the unthinkable in order to stop the SNP in its tracks and, given the softly-softly approach isn’t working so well, perhaps taking someone out of left field isn’t such a bad idea.
As others have noted, I wouldnt necessarily consider Tom’s online persona as an asset, especially if he continues in a position of leadership. It’s one thing to revel in the “debate” with cybernats online as a backbencher, but there’s a whole different expectation should he become leader. I respect his desire to give as good as he gets from the cybernats, but if he wants to portray himself as a possible future FM, it will count against him. Could you imagine the outrage if Alex Salmond was on Twitter behaving as Tom sometimes does? Thankfully, Alex Salmond is above it and doesnt have to resort to this sort of campaigning. Anyone considering this as a strength of Tom’s is wrong: it’ll soon be unacceptable if he becomes leader making him immediately more impotent, but in reality, lowering himself to the sort of debate he has, is not the mark of a leader IMO.
That all said, I actually agree that Tom is probably the best of the candidates and does seem a genuinely decent guy, but he isnt what Labour need. It has to be someone in Holyrood, and it has to be radical. Tom is neither.
#37 by setindarkness on November 4, 2011 - 9:06 am
Can’t stand the type of politician that Tom Harris represents. And intellectual, seriously? Maybe school playground bully “clever”
#38 by Steve on November 4, 2011 - 9:36 am
Spot on.
#39 by Robbie Pennington on November 4, 2011 - 4:58 pm
Absolutely correct setindarkness.
#40 by Doug Daniel on November 4, 2011 - 9:28 am
I know it’s not the point of the article, but I don’t think you can really compare an MP using threatening language on another MP with a couple of activists making comments in email or on Twitter. It’s all very reminiscent of a couple of years ago when a handful of pro-SNP bloggers (including one from some now-defunct blog called SNP Tactical Voting – I think you might have heard of him, Jeff!) were being taken to task for criticising Labour.
In fact, if genuine anger is the sign that a raw nerve has been touched, then clearly Labour have a lot of exposed nerves, as they’re really quite visceral in their hatred of “Cybernats”.
I don’t agree with your assertion that Tom Harris’ ability to wind nationalists up is based on an ability to uncover big grains of truth. I genuinely despise Iain Gray, but it’s not because of an ability to speak uncomfortable truths about the SNP and independence; it’s because the stuff he comes out with is such unmitigated keich, and he does so knowing he won’t get taken to task about it by the media. Ian Davidson’s “neo-fascist” slur drew genuine ire from nationalists, because it’s highly insulting. I get genuinely angry every time a Labour politician repeats the same old rubbish about why independence would be bad for Scotland too. The anger Tom Harris may or may not invoke is no more based in truth than any of that. As a matter of fact, I’m not even sure Tom Harris has even said anything to make me angry – I usually find his comments pithy and easily dismissed, mainly because no one actually takes any notice of him.
But if we suppose for a minute that your premise is right here, then I still think you’re promoting Tom Harris for all the wrong reasons. Being able to write an (allegedly) witty blog is hardly evidence of an intellectual heavyweight (neither is an HND in journalism from Napier) although I will concede that he is far closer to “getting” Labour’s problems than the other two numpties.
Experience? Well, you’re wrong to say he served in the cabinet for a start, as he never rose higher than Parliamentary Under Secretary for Transport, which he only did for two years anyway. Johann Lamont probably has a better claim in the experience department having served as deputy justice minister under the Laboural Democrat coalition, especially as she’s served as deputy leader for some time, which means she’s stood in for Iain Gray on occasion.
As for his opposition to devo max, I think you’re misreading things here. I can’t speak for other SNP members, but the reason I’m disappointed no one is taking that option up is not because deep down I know it’s the best play for Labour, as I couldn’t give a toss about Labour. It’s not because I fear the SNP imploding, because in truth I’m only an SNP supporter because they’re the best route towards the main goal. It’s because I want Scotland to progress, and it disappoints me to see such lack of ambition, and angers me to think that we could be kept in this union just on the back of some silly party political games.
Your basis for saying Labour should elect Tom Harris seems to be more about thwarting the SNP than revitalising the Labour party and turning it into a better party for Scotland. Labour need to elect someone with some proper ideas, someone who puts Scotland ahead of Labour. Tom Harris is not that person. Then again, neither are the other two, so he’s probably the best they’re going to get. So in fact, I actually agree with you – I just disagree with your reasoning.
(Incidentally, I don’t agree that devolving powers slowly is a good route – the longer we take to get those powers, the more time we’re wasting. If it’s right for Scotland to have those powers, then why wait? If Scots want Holyrood to have more powers NOW, then why should they be thwarted by Westminster grudgingly devolving a couple every ten years, through badly thought-out Scotland Bills like the current one?)
#41 by A Cairns on November 4, 2011 - 9:52 am
I think Ken Macintosh would be better as he’d be more consensual and has left the door open to extra powers etc.
Lamont would certainly be a disaster though, I hope to god she isn’t selected.
#42 by Mike Small on November 4, 2011 - 9:55 am
There seems to be lacking any analysis his actual political beliefs in this article commending him?
Pro Iraq
Pro identity cards
Unreconstructed Blairite
I’m not sure how this fits with any of Better Nation’s stated political outlook. It just seems incoherent on almost every level.
#43 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 10:08 am
Iraq is over, identity cards have been scrapped and being a Blairite (whatever that means) isn’t a policy.
I thought the independence buzzword was ‘forward’ but you seem to be looking backwards Mike 😉
No opposition leader these days is going to have any concrete policies 4+ years away from an election, hence their deliberate (and coherent I may add) avoidance.
#44 by An Duine Gruamach on November 4, 2011 - 10:59 am
You can only judge politicians by what they’ve done in the past – especially when they’ve been in power. And of course, for many Labour supporters, Iraq was an unforgivable sin.
#45 by Indy on November 4, 2011 - 11:04 am
Yes but Tom Harris insists on defending Iraq. He is one of the rare breed who do that. Most of them either say I didn’t support it or acknowledge that Blair got it badly wrong.
That’s valid grounds for concern both in terms of an inability to admisee that it was a mistake (as most Labour members now think) and also of course there’s talk of the US/UK talking military action in Iran so it’s not an entirely dead issue.
#46 by Indy on November 4, 2011 - 11:06 am
That word “admisee” is of course a cross between admit and see, as I typed admit and then decided that was the wrong word as Tom Harris doesn’t even see that Iraq was a mistake so why “admit” it?
#47 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 11:08 am
I can understand that defence of Iraq, even if I lost a lot of respect for Labour over the way the conflict started.
The coalition should have been stronger and the lack of a UN resolution was a criminal misjudgement (possibly literally) but I am personally glad that Saddam Hussein has gone and there’s no point in pretending otherwise. I don’t see how we can be delighted about the situation in Libya but continue to say we got it terribly wrong over Iraq. The two situations are really not ‘that’ different.
That said, I don’t know what Tom’s defence of Iraq is so I wouldn’t want to put words in his mouth.
#48 by Indy on November 4, 2011 - 11:21 am
Don’t want to open the whole debate again but you are overlooking the fact that, as far as the British people were concerned, the reason for the Iraq war was that Saddam’s regime posed a credible threat – 45 minute claim, WMDs etc.
That turned out not to be true and Blair will never be forgiven for it.
It’s a shame in a way because he did leave a strong legacy in other ways, not least the Good Friday Agreement and everything that has followed on from that. But the perception that he played fast and loose with the truth in order to gain support for a war in which British servicemen and women lost their lives will always taint his reputation.
#49 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 11:23 am
I agree with you Indy, not deliberately overlooking it and it was shameful moment for Blair. Legacy ending etc.
It doesn’t mean that one can’t successfully argue that invading Iraq and ousting Saddam wasn’t a good thing though, even if under a false prospectus.
#50 by Iain Menzies on November 4, 2011 - 4:20 pm
thats right the british people never forgave blair for the 45 mins….they just re-elected him….
#51 by rullko on November 5, 2011 - 3:42 am
Yeah, but he was up against opponents who accepted his claims far more unquestioningly than his own party did, and then pleaded naivety when it turned out he was talking crap.
#52 by Indy on November 5, 2011 - 6:23 am
The only alternative in 2005 was the Tories led by Michael Howard. So it’s not all that surprising that Labour won that election but I would say it was in spite of Blair not because of him. If you seriously think his reputation has not been fatally damaged by Iraq I suggest you don’t get out much.
#53 by commenter on November 4, 2011 - 10:00 am
Funny to see what we would basically call ‘trolling skills’ being pointed up as a selling point. I reckon there’s some truth in that though.
Given his predeliction for trollin the nats, it’s clear that Jeff sees in Harris a kindred spirit. ;¬)
#54 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 10:03 am
Haha, you may well be onto something there 😉
#55 by CassiusClaymore on November 4, 2011 - 10:19 am
Selecting Tom Harris would be a calamitous error for ‘Scottish’ Labour. (Accordingly, he has my full support).
If they had any brains they’d pick Ken McIntosh. Of course, if they had any brains they’d have filled their candidate slots with some of the thousands of Scots who occupy senior positions across the public and private sector and who are Labour to the core. But they didn’t – and the result is that they have no depth of talent whatsoever and are left with a dilemma rather than a choice.
It really is that simple.
CC
#56 by Colin on November 4, 2011 - 11:05 am
Tom Harris is fairly smart, and media savvy. However, that does not make him a leader. He’d be better suited to being their head of communications or something.
His inability to keep his emotions in check, and tendency to rant out the first thing that comes to mind would lead to him being a disaster as leader. He doesn’t have the gravitas.
Point in case: his outrageous comments after the shootings in Norway. The man would be an embarrassment if he ever ended up F.M.
#57 by James on November 4, 2011 - 11:07 am
Norway is a fantastic example. I persuaded him to apologise for that on Twitter but it was like getting an egg back from a ferret.
#58 by Indy on November 4, 2011 - 11:30 am
It was the fact that he immediately leapt to the conclusion that it was an Islamist terrorist and started making provocative comments about it before anyone really knew what had happened or who was even responsible. As if it was just a part of a continuing debate and not a unique incident which needed to be evaluated and considered in its own right.
#59 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 11:39 am
It is of course a fair challenge but as someone who also leapt to the conclusion that it was an overseas attack, I’m not going to be casting too many stones.
I guess one would just have to hope that disgruntled backbencher Tom Harris would act very differently to statesman party leader Tom Harris.
Plus, people take Twitter far too seriously for my liking. Sure, it gives a clue as to a person’s personality but personality and political public persona are very separate beasts these days. Sadly.
#60 by Indy on November 4, 2011 - 12:13 pm
But you are not an MP.
#61 by Jeff on November 4, 2011 - 12:18 pm
Yes, thank you, well aware of that. And I pointed out that Tom wasn’t a leader of a party (or a region of a party or whatever ‘Scottish Labour’ means) and perhaps he wouldn’t have been so quick off the draw with premature conclusions if he was.
I seem to remember Salmond blurted out a comment about ‘spivs and speculators’ bringing down HBOS before he knew the facts. Not the same thing but not entirely different either. And he was the First Minister.
#62 by Doug Daniel on November 4, 2011 - 12:19 pm
“Plus, people take Twitter far too seriously for my liking.”
Particularly Labour. If they want to pick fights over a jokey comment made by an SNP activist (a comment which, as far as I can see, was implying the Lords as a whole was full of dozing/drunk old men, not Foulkes specifically), then they’d better be prepared for every single one of Tom’s past Twitter gaffes to be brought to a wider audience if he becomes leader.
Unless, of course, whoever becomes leader decides to make Labour start rising above such pettiness.
#63 by R.G. Bargie on November 4, 2011 - 12:02 pm
“but it was like getting an egg back from a ferret”
Awesome. I’m having that one 😀
#64 by Erchie on November 4, 2011 - 12:37 pm
Too late, I already pinched it 😉
#65 by An Duine Gruamach on November 4, 2011 - 1:32 pm
James, that is possibly the greatest simile I have ever read. Gold star, that man.
#66 by Richard Thomson on November 4, 2011 - 2:47 pm
Brilliant. [Gets cloth to mop up coffee from keyboard]
#67 by Mike on November 4, 2011 - 12:04 pm
‘I don’t know what Tom’s defence of Iraq is’ Maybe you should if you endorse him?
Not sure how Tom’s stance on Scottish democracy, civil liberties, voting reform and overseas adventurism sits with your liberal-green outlook Jeff. You seem confused.
#68 by James Morton on November 4, 2011 - 12:45 pm
So the only choice is an internet troll for labour leader?
It’s one thing to troll or grief someone from the sidelines – quite different when you have stand across from a political opponent and do so as “leader” of a poitical party. I suspect he’d just be a version of Ian Gray but with an even bigger chip on his shoulder.
Lastly – didn’t labour get a slap down from the electorate for being this negative? Are they making a similar mistake as the tories did with Thatcherism and assume that what’s needed now is even more of what didn’t work last time round?
Think we can put Labour up for the next darwin awards?
#69 by cynicalHighlander on November 4, 2011 - 3:20 pm
They’re already on the red list.
#70 by Colin on November 4, 2011 - 12:52 pm
Fair points Jeff. He may well be able to amend his behaviour and take on a more statesman-like tone. However, he is a big risk.
My money is on Johann Lamont as she’s got the unions behind her, and seems a bit more open to consensus on policy positions than the other two. However, she is dragged down by her attachment to Iain Gray and his ‘trench mentality’ type politics. Hmmm…
Ken MacIntosh is dull as dishwater. He’s probably win!
#71 by Tormod on November 4, 2011 - 3:52 pm
For my tuppence worth, it’s not a great selection is it! Really very poor and reflects labour real love is Westminster and not Holyrood.
I have no idea it Tom Harris has a big support in the wider labour community as most folk I know you support labour don’t reall know any of them.
#72 by Doug Daniel on November 4, 2011 - 4:43 pm
Well, that’s hardly a surprise when their own leader can’t even name them all…
#73 by Aidan on November 4, 2011 - 4:00 pm
Tom was never in the cabinet, he was minister for light rail for a wee bit.
#74 by Tormod on November 4, 2011 - 4:04 pm
If memory serves me right he was part of London crossrail project.
#75 by Angus McLellan on November 4, 2011 - 5:30 pm
That’s Harris sorted then, damned by faint praise. But on the same basis I see Ken as the weakest candidate. Deputy convenor of the Standards committee and shadow schools minister isn’t a lot to show for his first three terms in parliament, especially when he’s such an awfully photogenic, plausible chap.
When I try to imagine how I might vote if I had a vote, I keep coming back to the same conclusion: Johann Lamont is the best of the available candidates for the job.
#76 by R.G. Bargie on November 4, 2011 - 5:27 pm
I’ve actually just caught up with Harris’ interview on Newsnight Scotland earlier this week, and for a self-professed “good communicator” it was less than impressive. Glenn Campbell asked him straight out to make the “positive case for the Union” that Labour keep talking about but mysteriously failing to actually outline, and his answer was… Labour will set aside a proportion of social housing for school-leavers with jobs. What?
The rest was just the same old guff Labour couldn’t sell the voters in May – no to independence, no to devo max, no to doing anything about sectarianism, yes to mandatory sentences for knife crime. For someone who supposedly gets what’s gone wrong for Labour, he doesn’t seem to want to change much.
#77 by Aidan on November 4, 2011 - 11:54 pm
Labour aren’t opposed to “doing anything about sectarianism”, but do oppose the current bill which is highly problematic, broadly drafted, incoherent and fails to address the underlying problem.
While the party is guilty of knee jerk oppositionalism, in this case opposition is quite justifiable.
#78 by R.G. Bargie on November 5, 2011 - 12:05 am
I’d find that argument a lot more plausible if they were suggesting any constructive changes to the bill, rather than just falling back on tired old rubbish like “There are existing laws that could be enforced”. It seems staggeringly obvious to me that they’ve just seen the chance to grab some opportunist votes in Glasgow to shore up the council.
#79 by An Duine Gruamach on November 4, 2011 - 7:00 pm
Tom Harris:
Voted for the Iraq war, and against an inquiry into it.
Voted against a transparent parliament
Voted ambivalently on climate change
Voted against an elected upper house
Voted for ID cards
Voted for foundation hospitals
Voted for Labour’s draconian security legislation
Voted for Trident
Voted for a stricter asylum system.
Claims that Labour’s association with the public sector is a “disaster” and that the party ought to back “wealth creators” in the private sector.
People like Tom Harris are the reason people like me don’t vote Labour.
#80 by JPJ2 on November 4, 2011 - 8:03 pm
As an SNP member I am happy that Ruth Davidson has been elected-a no change candidate if ever there was one.
I would be blissfully happy if Lamont were elected with another Davidson as her deputy. I expect it to be MacIntosh and Sarwar though-won’t be betting on it because the election rules are as arcane as ever with Labour.
#81 by Observer on November 4, 2011 - 8:53 pm
Harris was the Transport Minister, Brown dropped him in a reshuffle. There is a good argument to make for Harris being made the Labour leader. First he is quite entertaining, his politics are off the radar in Scottish terms, it would improve facial exercise with everybody’s jaws dropping which might be good for those with double chins. Secondly, we would have the mother of all battles in Cathcart if Harris tried to take an SNP Holyrood seat. He would lose & what would Labour do then?
Vote Tom for a laugh!
(I am not being entirely serious)
#82 by Observer on November 4, 2011 - 9:10 pm
On the question of the referendum – if the answer is no, then it won’t be by a wide margin & IF the FFA question is not included, then that will be the next objective to go for. We are not going to settle this question without a significant movement of power from Westminster to Holyrood. Nobody should think we are, because when all is said & done, there is electorate out there & they have an opinion.
Harris tries to justify the Iraq invasion on the basis that Blair acted honourably. He seems to be one of the few people alive who still believe that. Ten out of ten for loyalty, but as an Achilles heel, well it’s more of an Achilles body really, his position on Iraq is a huge burden for him. It is not one that Scottish Labour will in any sense want to carry for him.
I think it will be Lamont until some of the younger MSPs come up. Labour know they are out of power for a considerable period of time.
#83 by Allan on November 4, 2011 - 11:47 pm
You know Jeff, that’s actually a rather good attempt at summing up the plus points for Tom Harris. The obvious other plus point is that he’s a fellow Whovian, but apart from that, it’s a good pro Harris post…
Except that as other comentators have pointed out, he does coem across as petulant & truncadant. For me though the biggest question mark against Harris is his politics, namely for a Scottish Labour leadership candidate he is remarkiably right wing (which is saying something considering Gray’s policy on knife crime could have come from a Michael Howard speech circa 1995). An unabashed Blairite – that presumably would revive PFI as the funding tool de jour. He was among the first to speak out against Brown and was also among the first to torpido any possibility of a Lib Dem-Labour coalition after the last Westminster Election. Oh and yes, Iraq and Afghanistan are still touchstone policies.
Harris might be the best of the three as you say. The problem for “Scottish” Labour is, does his plus points outweigh his minus points. As I point out on my own blog this week, Labour might gain electorially by attacking the SNP from the Left – and re-positioning (slightly) to the left of the SNP.
#84 by Erchie on November 5, 2011 - 12:48 am
Maybe that is harris’s problem with the SNP
As the SNP has a Cabal of Star Trek fans at the top, it’s the whole fight between the low regarded types of SF fans.
In the hierarchy there was always debate as to who was lower, Whoovers or Trekkies, usually Whoovers were seen as lower (this is the bad old JNT days)
So he wants payback for having sand kicked in his face by a Trek fab
#85 by Erchie on November 5, 2011 - 12:48 am
fan, not fab
#86 by Erchie on November 5, 2011 - 11:38 am
Again, judging Harris by his words, this tweet comes across as both self-serving and self-pitying
“Tom4Scotland Tom Harris
Congratulations to @RuthForLeader. Nice to see the candidate less favoured at the start win through in the end.”
#87 by Doug Daniel on November 5, 2011 - 4:25 pm
I thought the exact same thing – he might as well have put “I hope the same happens in our election” at the end.
Saying that, I’m not convinced Ruth Davidson was less favoured, certainly not after Murdo announced his main policy (the only actual policy of the entire campaign, I might add…)
#88 by rullko on November 5, 2011 - 6:33 pm
I don’t see what’s so bad about that one. It just sounds like a bit of light self-deprecation.
#89 by Brian on November 6, 2011 - 12:09 pm
Rather juvenile tweets such as;
“Loving cybernat frenzy as they try to pretend I have an obligation to answer any of their loaded questions. Gawd bless ’em!”
“You misunderstand me: I am not remotely interested in whether you believe me or not.”
“Basically, CyberNats lurk on Twitter and blogs, pouncing on any pro-unionist comments. And still live with their mums. Probably.”
paint a picture of an old fashioned “tribalist” of the type Gerry Hassan discusses in his blog today;
http://www.gerryhassan.com/uncategorized/the-power-of-black-and-white-scotland/
A figure that seems part of the problem and not part of the solution