For a woman who’s yet to be convinced by the merits of independence, I am oddly delighted Chris and Colin Weir have chosen to donate £1 million of their tremendous £161 million EuroMillions win to the SNP, to swell the coffers of the independence campaign together with the incredibly generous bequest of £918,000 left by Edwin Morgan.
While it does make me scrabble around in my mind for who would be on the rather blank list of prospects who might be willing to make a similar donation to the unionist campaign, I still feel delight. Why? Simply, I’m a great fan of philanthropy. It pleases me to see money donated by ordinary people (albeit made extraordinary by luck) being spent for a cause instead of just sitting gathering interest in a bank account.
This week should see the final report published by the Committee on Standards in Public Life into party political finance. This review – like all of the others into political funding before it – has been extensively leaked and already rubbished by the three main Westminster parties.
Nonetheless, it is rumoured to put forward a case for extra state funding – a provision already dismissed by Nick Clegg as untenable during a period of austerity – and proposes to cap individual donations at £10,000, panicking Tory City grandees and Labour trade union bigwigs alike.
I would hate to see individual donations capped at one-hundredth of what Mr and Mrs Weir have chosen to give, for any party. I would equally hate to see political parties gain more funding from the state and taxpayers. This is because I believe parties and the causes they stand for should stand or fall based on what support from voters, and therefore donors, they can garner.
Political parties are certainly not charities. But in a way similar to charities, if they can’t fundraise to keep themselves afloat and keep fighting for their cause, then they deserve to go under. After all, just like a charity, each political party was founded to put right a supposed wrong.
If you’ve got a cause and you’ve got someone – an individual, a community, a company, a trade union – who wants to donate to further that cause, then most times you should be able to take that money.
There should of course still be conditions and there should certainly be more transparency – some being individual donors should not be able to give anonymously or through third-parties, and they must be registered to vote, or, for companies, registered to pay tax in the UK. Political parties, overseen by the independent Electoral Commission, should conduct fit and proper person tests and not take donations if they come from a source that could damage the party’s reputation or unduly influence its work – raising eyebrows over whether Ecclestone and Souter’s gifts should’ve been accepted by their respective beneficiaries, and inhibiting funding by loans and speculation.  And in the same way charities take on state contracts, there’s still scope for some short money funding to ensure effective opposition, in recognition of its importance to democracy.
Does it give too much power over our democracy to the wealthy? Only if you aren’t willing to embrace either new forms of fundraising like crowdsourcing, as Obama has done so successfully, or indeed accept the unions and the political levy donations of the millions of working people they encompass, purposefully designed to take on the rich behemoths of society through the trade unions’ political wing of the Labour Party. (Or at least that’s the theory.)
But building on the crowdsouring idea a little more: right now all political parties spend all their time talking to target voters, and ignoring the great masses of the unaligned or the uninterested. If they had to talk to more people, and to make a case not just to get them to vote, but to get them to give as well, just think how much better political discourse in every constituency would have to be.
But whether it’s a jumble sale or a gala dinner, political parties should be responsible for raising their own money from their supporters. It should be more open, but it shouldn’t be inhibited by caps on spending, and the majority of it certainly shouldn’t be funded by the state. After all, if you care enough about a cause, or are persuaded to care about it, you’ve got to be able to give it what you want, be it time, action or cash.
#1 by Stuart Winton on November 22, 2011 - 11:32 am
“Ordinary people”??
I can’t see anything ordinary about Edwin Morgan or Brian Souter. Nor a couple who’re worth £160 million, even if they did come by it by what you call ‘luck’.
Nothing at all ordinary about anyone who can afford to donate a million pounds or thereabouts to a political party.
“Philanthropy”??
How about buying democracy?
Of course, one stock nationalist response to all of this is “Tories this”, “Labour that”, but that just demonstrates that Scottish democracy is just morphing into a microcosm of Westminster.
Or even of Washington, because the SNP is increasingly looking like a party of the rich.
#2 by Doug Daniel on November 22, 2011 - 11:54 am
“the SNP is increasingly looking like a party of the rich.”
Yes, because the guest lists for Tory fundraisers are just full of lottery winners and poets…
#3 by Stuart Winton on November 22, 2011 - 11:57 am
I meant ‘rich’ in terms of financial wealth, not where it came from.
#4 by Doug Daniel on November 22, 2011 - 12:23 pm
We all know what is meant when someone says something is the preserve of the rich, and it’s nothing to do with lottery winners or poets bequeathing their estate towards a worthwhile political cause. If you weren’t trying to imply that the SNP have replaced/joined the Tories as a party in the pockets of the rich elite, then you should perhaps find a better term to describe what you’re really saying.
#5 by Stuart Winton on November 22, 2011 - 2:30 pm
As I said it’s about buying democracy. To that extent the source of the money isn’t really relevant.
And I wasn’t trying to imply anything, I stated it explcitly!
#6 by rullko on November 23, 2011 - 10:04 am
Indeed. It’s sinister. Who knows what Edwin Morgan will be looking for in return?
#7 by Erchie on November 22, 2011 - 12:38 pm
The SNP’s not overly gifted with huge donors, which is why the bequest of Edwin Morgan and this are so newsworthy
When Brian Souter pledged money to the SNP earlier in the year, it was as match funding, ordinary people put in a £1, and Souter put in another up to a max of £250,000
That gives your lie to the “SNP being the party of the rich”, ordinary people are putting their money in, the big donors are the exception, which is not a thing often associated with the other parties, save as Union levies
#8 by Stuart Winton on November 22, 2011 - 2:34 pm
So you’re saying that the Tories and Labour don’t get small donations from so-called ‘ordinary people’ then?
I’m not trying to defend the other parties, just making the point that the SNP is becoming more like them.
And of course that process will merely continue the longer they wield power and influence, a fortiori in an independent Scotland.
#9 by Erchie on November 22, 2011 - 3:26 pm
Not what I said at all.
And if you are going t come out with those sort of games then I’ll happily ignore the rest of your post
#10 by Stuart Winton on November 22, 2011 - 11:20 pm
So what are you saying then Erchie?
Or are you the one playing games yet accusing others of doing the same just to deflect from the substantive point?
I repeat, I’m not saying any of the parties are similar in terms of funding, but they all have common traits, be it funding from rich people who are, er, rich, or rich people who are, er, ordinary.
And they all have genuinely ordinary people donating to them as well.
#11 by Erchie on November 23, 2011 - 10:53 am
One thing I noticed during the 2011 election was that Stephen Curran’s campaign office was often empty. Well before the date of the election, there was post lying on he floor for multiples of days.
I spoke to a green support team in the constituency, never saw hide nor hair of a Labour canvasser.
Compare that to the SNP who not only increased their membership from 2008’s high figure by almost 50% by 2011, and who were able to get supporters on the ground.
Compare with that Ayrshire by-election where Labour were trying to shuttle folk over from NI and Northern England.
Compare that with the ageing support of the Tory Party.
The greens may not have the numbers, but they are able to get folk to devote their time in a public prescence
Those are ordinary people devoting their time and effort.
Of course people pay into Labour (often by default as part of a Union levy or donation) and into the Tories, but there’s a wheen of a difference between that and the situation the SNP finds itself in.
If the SNP were this paty of the rich and influential you claim then they wouldn’t have touched Sectarianism with a barge pole, given how entrenched into the establishment the football clubs are
#12 by John Bell on November 23, 2011 - 12:53 pm
Issafact.
I stood for the SNP in an East Ayrshire by-election (I didn’t win) and Labour was so devoid of activists they bussed in students form Glasgow, etc, one of whom was the laddie who used to do a blog – Yousuf, I think.
#13 by GMcM on November 23, 2011 - 2:01 pm
Sectarianism is not and never has been caused by football clubs. The reason the SNP went wading into the sectarianism issue is because of a bit of argy bargy on the touchline of a Celtic-Rangers game in March. It was all over the papers and they jumped on the bandwagon proclaiming they would take action. The police commissioner (I may have my ranking wrong here) said he wanted ot highlight domestic abuse around certain football matches and the alcohol related nature of that abuse; he never intended his protestations to lead to this Bill (which completely ignores domestic abuse!)
They have not looked at the causes of sectarianism and they do not understand the issue. If they did they would realise this approach they are taking is wrong and will not tackle the problem.
This Bill panders to bigots and the ill-informed – rather than celebrate differences and teach each side of the others history and heritage we have a Bill which will force people to hide what they are in case an ill-educated/ill-informed individual is offended by something they don’t understand.
The songs sung at football grounds around the country are, in the main, not offensive and not ethno-religiously prejudiced. Some clubs, more than others, celebrate their heritage and do so through song. This should not be impeded upon.
I ask: what is offensive about The Boys of the Old Brigade and The Sash?
Also: What is the difference between those songs and our national anthem(s)?
#14 by Stuart Winton on November 23, 2011 - 3:22 pm
Oh, so the anti-sectarian legislation encapsulates the SNP”s approach to the rich and influential, does it??
Dinna think so, and even if it was as totemic as you allude I doubt if this establishent will be over worried about a bit of legislative posturing on the issue which will make little substantive difference to anything.
As for the amount of ordinary people supporting the SNP, I haven’t doubted that; it’s the not-so-ordinary people that I was on about.
#15 by Doug Daniel on November 23, 2011 - 12:11 pm
“I repeat, I’m not saying any of the parties are similar in terms of funding, but they all have common traits, be it funding from rich people who are, er, rich, or rich people who are, er, ordinary.”
So when you say a party is “a party of the rich”, you simply mean that rich people donate towards it, rather than it’s the party that promotes the interests of rich people, to the detriment of all others?
In that case, your statement is utterly pointless. You could make numerous statements about the SNP saying “the SNP are a party of the X”, where X is any type of person who donates towards them.
#16 by Stuart Winton on November 23, 2011 - 3:17 pm
Well you could equally say the same about any party about anything, but that doesn’t normally stop you!
#17 by Doug Daniel on November 22, 2011 - 11:47 am
It’s a toughie. You’re right that the state shouldn’t prop up parties, as a party that cannot attract enough funding to survive deserves to go under. No party has a divine right to exist. It would also mean taxpayers subsidising a whole heap of parties that they won’t even vote for. At the same time though, the current model ensures that the main parties are the best funded, which means the ones with the most big donors remain at the top of the pile, and allows at least the impression of big donors being able to dictate party policy. The Ecclestone example really was quite cynical, and it’s difficult to see any realistic reasoning behind Formula 1 being given an exemption from the tobacco advertising ban back then, other than as a sop to him. However, if an individual really does want to grant a massive donation to their favoured party, should they really be prevented by some arbitrary cap? The lottery winners are a perfect example – no one could seriously suggest that their donation comes with demands for the SNP to favour this policy or that policy, so it would be a bit unfair if there had been a cap in place to prevent their donation. Besides which, if someone really wants to donate a million pounds to a party, they’ll find a way of doing it, so all you’re doing is increasing the scope for the type of fincancial shenanigans that got Wendy Alexander in trouble.
In the end, I think all we can do is place our trust in the parties not to let major donors sway their policymaking too much, and besides, no amount of money can be a match for a solid army of ground troops to knock on doors. Also, as you say, greater transparency would be good. There would be a danger of badly-funded parties having to leave it to candidates to fund their own campaigns if these regulations and caps were put in place, thus leading parties to choose well-off candidates who could afford to fund themselves.
The system we have is imperfect, but it’s almost certainly better than the alternatives.
#18 by Stuart Winton on November 22, 2011 - 11:55 am
Yes, Doug, and if Souter, Morgan and the Weirs had donated thier cash to Labour and the Tories and the SNP was getting jack then you’d be saying exactly the same thing, wouldn’t you ;0)
#19 by Doug Daniel on November 22, 2011 - 12:16 pm
Nope, I’d be moaning like anything and letting it cloud my judgement, leaving myself open to people saying “but why should I, as a unionist, be forced to fund a party that believes in something I’m fundamentally opposed to?”, just as I am currently not exactly keen on the idea of the money I pay in taxes contributing directly towards the Tory party if state funding became a reality.
#20 by GMcM on November 22, 2011 - 12:19 pm
You touched upon Ecclestone. Would your point about the lottery winners not have been stronger if you had compared it to Soutar? Both give money to the SNP but the reasoning behind it is somewhat different. One wants to help the SNP achieve a policy they already support while *redacted for scurrilousness – ED*. Talk about putting principles first.
Also, the Wendy Alexander situation was a storm in a tea cup, she was cleared of wrongdoing but the SNP wanted a scalp and were relentless in going after her and forced her to step down. I think there are a few in the SNP who should hang their heads at their treatment of Wendy. But hey, why should they, it was all positive wasn’t it? The SNP don’t do negative politics.
#21 by Don McC on November 22, 2011 - 6:34 pm
On an aside, strictly Wendy wasn’t cleared of wrong doing (although that was the was the story was spun in the Labour supporting press), the Electoral commision decided it was not “in the public interest” to pursue a prosecution. After all, she admited breaking the law, so they could hardly turn round and say she hadn’t when she clearly had.
I think the coronations Labour used at the time, while the monarch-in-waiting still sought campaign funding actually justifies a lot of Wendy’s treatment.
#22 by Fraser Wight on November 22, 2011 - 6:41 pm
To be fair there are some in Labour who should maybe do the same.
#23 by Doug Daniel on November 23, 2011 - 12:13 pm
So the governing party of Scotland should have turned a blind eye to the leader of the main opposition breaking the law? What an excellent example that would have set.
#24 by Jeff on November 23, 2011 - 12:23 pm
It’s perfectly straightforward as far as I am concerned, if Wendy Alexander hadn’t done anything wrong and believed in her arguments, she shouldn’t have resigned. Simple as that.
#25 by Doug Daniel on November 23, 2011 - 12:27 pm
Exactly, and I fail to understand why there are still people being bitter about it.
#26 by Jeff on November 22, 2011 - 12:00 pm
A convincing argument Kirsty, particularly the idea of political parties being quasi-charities that need to convince the public in order to survive. A bit free-markety invisible hand, but it does make sense.
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That said, I liked the idea of (I think Nick Clegg’s) suggestion that each political party would get a small amount of money for each vote it received in a General Election. Not only would it help reduce tactical voting & get the green vote out, but I abhor the idea that a few individuals with piles of cash can swing an election, whatever their intentions. So I see state funding as a more equitable arrangement and great value for money if it cleans up the system.
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I think it’s high time that we capped individual donations to £1,000, or even £100, if we’re serious about politics not being just for those with the deepest of pockets and if we want to avoid the US style where MPs/MSPs are raising money almost as soon as they take office as a result of a grubby arms race. If we take the need for fundraising out of the equation, then there is more time for governing, surely?
#27 by Doug Daniel on November 22, 2011 - 12:29 pm
The thing about capping donations is what exactly counts as “a” donation? Is it the total money donated over a period of time, or is it just individual amounts given, regardless of others?
If it’s the first, then I’ve already surpassed your £100 limit this year, just from my SNP membership fee, as would anyone giving anything more than about £8 per month.
If it’s the second, then anyone wanting to donate £1,000,000 to a party just has to stagger the donation as a series of £100 payments. It’ll take the best part of 3 years to do it, but the result will be the same.
#28 by Jeff on November 22, 2011 - 12:34 pm
I’m not sure how 3 £100 payments add up to £1,000,000 and ‘a donation’ would be the total of all donations from an individual in one given year.
£100 might be a ‘bit’ tight but subscriptions would absolutely be a part of the consideration of when someone has paid too much.
#29 by Doug Daniel on November 22, 2011 - 2:15 pm
Aha Jeff, never make the mistake of questioning my maths! I’m talking about a £100 donation every day, and of course, 3 x 365 x 100 makes a grand total of… err.. £109,500…
Sorry, did I say a series of £100 payments? I clearly meant £1000 payments…
Anyway, my point stands that any donation cap is pointless unless it’s cumulative, and if we’re talking about an annual donation cap, then even a £1000 cap would be fairly limiting. This then gets into the territory of less well-off party members being expected to give a larger proportion of their income to their party than well-off members – I feel a bit cheap just giving £10 per month, and I dare say the “suggested monthly donation” (or the “if you don’t give us this much, then you’re a cheapskate” amount, as I think of it) displayed on application forms would rapidly increase to make up for the shortfall from better-off donors.
But on the other hand, maybe there should be less overall funding anyway, and political parties should be running almost entirely on goodwill?
#30 by Jeff on November 22, 2011 - 2:22 pm
I had assumed that it’d be pretty obvious that any limit would be cumulative, shoddy maths notwithstanding!
And I don’t see how a limit of £1,000 is limiting. How many people have that much money lying around to give away to their favourite political party? Not many at all.
#31 by Indy on November 22, 2011 - 3:34 pm
You would be surprised. £1000 is a biggie as a one-off payment but it’s just over 80 quid a month and people can be talked into that. That’s how it works with donations whether it’s politcal parties or charirties – they get you onto a monthly direct debit which gives them a regular predictable income (useful for paying the rent, staff salaries etc) and you don’t notice it so much cos it comes off your salary without you even seeing it.
#32 by Doug Daniel on November 22, 2011 - 3:34 pm
Dunno like, I could see myself upping my SNP membership to £100 per month if I started earning £50,000 per year, which wouldn’t exactly be putting me into the top 1% of earners in the country (probably not even in the top 50% in Aberdeen…) I’m not even a particularly active member of the party, so I imagine those who devote a great chunk of their spare time to their party would probably see £1000 as a good investment.
To be honest, I’m not nearly as bothered either way as the number of replies I’m making would suggest – like I said in my original reply, it’s a toughie – there are good arguments for both sides. I suppose it depends what you’re actually trying to achieve. Stopping any one donor having too much sway within their own party? Levelling the playing field between parties? Reducing the scope for financial irregularities?
Put it this way: are there not more pressing concerns on the public purse?
#33 by Indy on November 22, 2011 - 3:10 pm
Your membership fee is not a donation.
#34 by Jeff on November 22, 2011 - 3:21 pm
It could be if they changed the rules.
#35 by Doug Daniel on November 22, 2011 - 3:35 pm
Well if that’s the case, anyone wanting to donate millions to a party just has to up their membership fee.
#36 by Fraser Wight on November 22, 2011 - 7:03 pm
But surely its unfair that a party growing in popular support would not be able to raise funds in light of that. Until you know they win an election…which might be hard with little money.
It’d take even longer for new parties to emerge as well. Then if you vote for a party – do you really want to give them any money? If you only vote based on local MP or whatever – its a bit rich to say you pledge your tax money to their party.
The idea of paying ‘per vote’ with whatever extras are attacked seems bonkers to me and hardly fair. Small parties will suffer in the end as their donors can’t give the money they feel they deserve.
I agree with most of Kirsty’s points – the current system is the best system and offers the best strength to individuals.
In the end what does money buy you? We have the BBC to offer unbiased news (so unaffected by any money deals) and in fact to show political messages if a party seems popular enough.
Really all money pays for is organisation, team, and the behind the curtain team. In the end they only ‘create’ what a voter votes for – they don’t pay them to vote and I don’t think money really affects voters.
I suppose though that rather asks – ‘why donate then’ – and whilst true they need some money – these donations obviously go above that when added to the ‘pot’ So certainly I’d say it helps messages come across – but I don’t think it influences voters perceptions of those messages any more than if you could only afford a £5 cardboard placard of your manifesto.
#37 by BM on November 22, 2011 - 12:05 pm
I live in a country where not only are the political parties subsidized by the state, but the national press is as well. Parties get a certain amount of funding per vote received, and newspapers get a certain amount per issue sold. At first, I was quite annoyed with the fact that extremist parties and publications receive a piece of my pay packet. But what I’ve come to realize is that democracy is not just about having elections and representatives in a parliament; it’s also about having forums for the free exchange and promotion of ideas from all sides of the political spectrum, including those less popular. What is popular, after all, is not always right, and what is right, is not always popular.
#38 by Indy on November 22, 2011 - 12:23 pm
I have always supported state funding for political parties – not in terms of the state giving vast wadges of cash. And neither do I agree with doing it on the basis of votes. It should be match-funding with the state matching individual donations up to a certain level. So, for example, for everyone that makes a donation to a political party (of whatever size) the state would match that with £5. If you got 10,000 people to make a donation to your party you would therefore get £50,000. If you got 20,000 people to donate to your party you would get £100,000 etc. And you could also, if you wished, place a cap on the amount that individual donors were able to give.
Incidentally Doug the idea that any party would be allowed to go under is false. We are immensely lucky in the SNP that thanks to the generosity of party members, the restructuring of the membership system that John Swinney brought in plus a number of large donations we have no debt. But that was not always the case – we were in debt until quite recently and Labour, the Lib Dems and Tories are all in debt I believe.
If political parties were businesses it is quite likely that they would all have been declared bankrupt at some point or other, but the banks aren’t going to shut down a political party are they? So we have all at various times been bailed out by the bankers – a neat role reversal in a way.
#39 by Stuart Winton on November 22, 2011 - 11:36 pm
Sorry Indy, but you’re not really saying that the more people who give money to a political party the more the state should fund it?
And a party catering primarily for the rich – and to that extent will have more supporters who have money to spend on things like political parties – will get more money from the state?
#40 by Indy on November 23, 2011 - 10:35 am
Yes that’s exactly what I am saying.
But I think you should read what I said again. I would propose that the state matches each individual donation with, for illustrative purposes, the sum of £5. They would match each donation, whether it was a donation of £10 or £10,000. So it wouldn’t matter how much individuals donated or how rich they were – what would matter was that the party was able to persuade people that it was worth investing in.
I think that ties in fairly well with what Kirsty was arguing in terms of ensuring that political parties talk to more people, and have to make a case not just to get them to vote, but to get them to give as well. And it would also help create a more level playing field between the smaller and larger parties.
#41 by Stuart Winton on November 23, 2011 - 3:32 pm
Can’t see how it would create more of a level playing field if because the larger parties ipso facto will have more support.
Thus further cash from taxpayers via the state would merely exacerbate this unlevel playing field, surely, rather than level it?
The whole thing would be open to gross abuse anyway. You mean that you can get all your relies and pals to donate a pound and the state will hand out a fiver?!?!
#42 by Indy on November 23, 2011 - 5:16 pm
No it wouldn’t because the parties would receive money in exactly the same proportion as the donations they received. That meant a small party – like the Greens say – could potentially increase their revenue quite substantially if they went on quite a determined fundraising drive. There would be people willing to give them a bit of cash who would never join and may not even vote Green as a first preference but who think that they ought to have a voice and an influence.
It would be a much fairer way of doing it in my view than doing it on the basis of votes because that really would just reinforce the existing disparities.
I also think you exaggerate how easy it would be to persuade all your relies and pals to hand over their sort codes and account numbers, even if you did offer to give them the cash in hand (which in itself would mean that you would be laying yourself open to potential prosecution). I don’t think people are as easily persuaded into criminality as that. It would actually be a lot easier just to go round to your known supporters!
Of course match funding of that nature would not in itself reduce the game changing effect of big one-off donations like Edwin Morgan’s or the Weirs’. You would need to also set a cap on donations to achieve that.
#43 by Dubbieside on November 22, 2011 - 1:29 pm
Before there is anything further done on political party funding, the first thing that should be sorted out is the funding by the unions of the Labour party.
The default position is (at least it was when I retired, if it has changed could someone tell me) that a part of my political levy went to the Labour party. If I did not agree with this I could opt out, but my opt out did not go to another party but was retained by the union for “other purposes”.
The only fair and equitable solution to trade union funding is that every member is asked, either which UK political party you wish your levy to go to, or if you do not want it to go to any political party, which charity would you like it donated to.
Once we get fairness in the trade union situation, that would then be the opportune time to look at individual and corporate donations.
#44 by Aidan on November 22, 2011 - 1:48 pm
Unions are, of course, free to disaffiliate from the Labour party if they wish to do so.
#45 by Angus McLellan on November 22, 2011 - 4:52 pm
Any suggestions on how I would go about opting out of paying for the union modernisation fund?
#46 by Dubbieside on November 22, 2011 - 7:26 pm
That does nothing to address the total bias towards Labour in the unions that do not disaffiliate.
The fact that the default position is a presumption of a political donation to only the Labour party, and electing to come out of the union levy still leaves the money in that union where it increases their coffers, and could still end up being donated to the Labour party as an election campaign donation as an example.
#47 by An Duine Gruamach on November 22, 2011 - 2:47 pm
Any cap in donations can be got around very easily. Say there’s a cap of £5,000 and I want to give £10,000 – what’s to stop me giving my brother £5,000 for him to make his “own” donation?
#48 by BM on November 22, 2011 - 2:54 pm
The Serious Fraud Office?
#49 by An Duine Gruamach on November 22, 2011 - 4:33 pm
But am I not just giving him a gift which is free to use as he wishes?
#50 by Jeff on November 22, 2011 - 4:41 pm
Patently not given you freely admit our imagined hero is ‘getting around’ the system. I suspect the Fraud Office would see it the same way.
There’s also an inheritance tax consideration by the way whereby amounts over £250 given to individuals as gifts are liable for tax, if the donor dies within 7 years of the gift being given that is.
#51 by Angus McLellan on November 22, 2011 - 5:05 pm
Public funding won’t happen. But I wonder if the net result of funding caps would be a rise in negative campaigning, in “political action committees”, “committees to re-elect”, “friends of”, and similar. For example, if I have a few million to spare and can’t give it directly to get Dave and chums elected, then why not set up a “Everybody hates Eds” group or something similar.
#52 by Ben Achie on November 22, 2011 - 7:40 pm
Any form of state funding comes with strings attached, as is the case with “Short Money” – there has to be approval for the purpose on which the money is to be spent. State funding = state control.
The SNP has traditionally relied on many, many small donations from members and sympathisers, and look at what they have been up against:
The Lib-Dems kept the money stolen by convicted fraudsters, and while the unions have traditionally been the paymasters of Labour, especially the public sector ones, Blair and Brown appeared happy to take money from absolutely any source, and the bigger the better, regardless of how tainted it was.
The Tories in Scotland have certainly not prospered from the munificence of Lord Laidlaw and others, with people being paid for doing much of their logistical work in the absence of volunteers. I cannot have been alone in being alarmed at the sight of the young male Tory “activists” in May’s election at our local count: bampots in suits!
It is inevitable that contributions will now be capped by the Westminster parties, simply because the SNP is prospering and winning some more big single donations, however, it would seem particularly unfair if legacies were banned. Think about it, the donor is past receiving any benefit from it!
#53 by Barbarian on November 22, 2011 - 8:20 pm
Some SNP supporters have turned out to be rather hypocritical, when they moan about how political parties are in the pocket of big business. Well, so are the SNP when it comes to Soutar.
There is no difference between the SNP and other parties. At least with this donation it comes from a couple who have decided how to spend their money. I don’t have a problem with that nor with the bequest. What I have a major problem with are businesses buying influence in politics. All the main parties do it and you cannot argue that they do not. Business donations should be banned.
#54 by Erchie on November 22, 2011 - 9:22 pm
You must be right, I mean, so much in the pocket of Souter, the man who bankrolled an anti-gay campaign, that no sooner are the SNP elected with a majority that they propose equality in marriage for same sex couples!
Bought and Sold indeed!
#55 by Angus McLellan on November 22, 2011 - 9:42 pm
I am broadly in favour of banning funding from corporations (or unions). But you are mistaken as to the facts. There’s no real difference between the Weir and Souter donations as both came from real people and not from corporations.
That’s not to say that the SNP received no money from corporations. Of course they did, but according to the Electoral Commission’s PEF database the largest single corporate donation in the period 2001-June 2011was £15K (second largest £10K).
#56 by Stuart Winton on November 22, 2011 - 11:48 pm
But it’s surely wrong to view Souter and Stagecoach as totally separate, Angus, irrespective of the fact that as legal entities they’re clearly not the same.
He’s chief executive and has a 15% stake in the company. This year he received a £50 million bonus in the form of a new share issue.
It’s hardly like ye or me having 100 shares in BT.
#57 by Angus McLellan on November 23, 2011 - 10:30 am
Souter is a rich businessman. Nobody doubted that. But it is his money he’s giving away, just as it is the Weir’s money or yours or mine. So not a corporate donation then as was stated. And if I went back to working for myself, would any donation I made be tainted somehow?
There can be ethical problems in accepting large donations from business people, but limiting their size wouldn’t address the issue. For example, hypothetically speaking and with any resemblance to real persons living or dead being purely coincidental, you could just as well buy my cooperation by giving one or more of my nearest and dearest a fabulously well-paid job in your corporation. And as I said earlier, PAC’s and the like could mop up the now-homeless cash. The result would be that any corruption ends up less visible than under the present system.
#58 by rullko on November 23, 2011 - 10:37 am
I generally agree with these sentiments, but how would you define a “business donation”?