Why was the skeletal motion feeling lonely? Because it had no body to sign it.
Yes, it is seasonal themed jokes folks. Pile in.
The reason? Well, a rather spoo-oo-ooky motion left by Christine Grahame this week. You’ll scream in horror if you don’t faint in shock at its bloodcurdling ghoulishness:
Motion S4M-01168 – Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (Scottish National Party) : Whatever Happened to Halloween?
That the Parliament notes the Americanisation of Halloween, whereby guising has become a commercialised trick or treat event with pumpkins, and urges the Scottish Government to take steps to bring back the tumshie.
Americanisation? Are we now living in Howllywood? North (or South) Scarolina? Are we all eating Boo-berry Pie? Is Glasgow now home to the (forgive me) Vampire State Building?
And what’s tumshies all about?
I really do have no idea what Christine is getting at, but, well, is that maybe her point?
Halloween for me is dooking for apples, more monkey nuts than you know what to do with, tin foil and toilet paper for a costume that the effort doesn’t ‘really’ justify and telling insufferable jokes in front of patient neighbours.
It is not trick or treating, it is not toilet papering and it is not about making money but are these things even present in Scotland let alone endemic? Is the SNP MSP creating a phantom issue here?
The SNP will be fighting their battles on many fronts but they should be seeking sanctuary in holidays (St Andrew’s Day to one side) and not adding them to their list of grievances.
So, what does this motion and a vampire have in common? They both suck.
(h/t @DuncMcKay)
#1 by AlbaTiger on October 28, 2011 - 9:24 am
I am afraid your Halloween, and mine, is somewhat out of date.
The most obvious part being “telling insufferable jokes in front of patient neighbours.”
That is the Scottish tradition of guising. Be it bad jokes, or a scary short story, told for a few coins or sweeties, this has been replaced almost entirely with the American cry of “trick or treat” … they may as well shout “Gie us somethin or we’re wreckin yer garden.”
Does this papering over of Scottish traditions deserve a mention in the Scottish parliament? That depends on how important you feel traditions are, does more effort need to be taken to keep them alive?
In the case of halloween this is in the face of the mass produced prepackaged corporate halloween being sold in every supermarket. However the sentiment can be applied to all traditions.
Certainly I feel that keeping good traditions alive is much more important than say, the First Minister making a slight referencing mistake which he apologised for as soon as he realised his error. Yet it is obvious which one the likes of the BBC felt were more important.
#2 by Jeff on October 28, 2011 - 10:54 am
Fair points there AlbaTiger, perhaps I shouldn’t be so complacent.
And I’m not one to judge what the current situation is. I don’t want to think how many years it has been since I was out guising, almost as little as I want to contemplate how few years it may be before I’m taking my own little baby goblins around the houses!
#3 by Doug Daniel on October 28, 2011 - 9:58 am
Tumshie is Lowlands Scots for a neep, or “turnip” as posh people might say.
To be fair, it’s not the worst motion I’ve seen, and I think she does at least have a point. When I was little, you’d go out “guising” with a lantern made from a neep (with a smell of cooking neep following you). Now you see pumpkins in the supermarkets, and children go out “trick-or-treating”.
It’s endemic of the much wider problem of Americanisation of culture throughout the world, though. I suppose that’s the problem with having so much American programmes on TV – rather than reading about Oor Wullie and his chums going out guising, children are seeing American children going “trick or treee-eeat!” and thinking that this is their culture. It’s the same with adults who throw Halloween parties – again, very much an American thing, as you didn’t get groups of people going “HAPPY HALLOWEEN!” before the 80s.
Is it something worth getting worked up about? Not in the grand scheme of things, but the underlying issue of the homogenisation of culture certainly is.
#4 by Colin on October 28, 2011 - 8:36 pm
Just for the record, halloween parties have been celebrated in Scotland and Ireland for hundreds of years. Here is an 1832 Irish painting of one:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Snap-Apple_Night_globalphilosophy.PNG
The traditions in Ireland, whilst slightly different, are very similar to our own ancient traditions – since Halloween comes originally from a Celtic (particularly gaelic) festival.
#5 by Indy on October 28, 2011 - 10:29 am
It is getting much more Americanised now. But I am pretty sure there is hee haw the Scottish Government can do about that!
Maybe there should be a rule that motions should only refer to things which are actually within the competence of the Scottish Parliament.
#6 by Stuart Winton on October 29, 2011 - 8:22 am
But they could set a minimum price for pumkins to encourage the purchase of tumshies.
Or ban the use of pumkins in public places, thus guisers would have to use tumshies.
Or criminalise the use of the phrase ‘trick or treat’, but only, of course, in an environment where this is likely to pose a threat to public order.
#7 by Indy on October 29, 2011 - 8:55 am
Yes Stuart because all those who have lost a family member or friend before their time to smoking related diseases, alcohol abuse or sectarian violence would totally understand how that is the same thing as promoting turnips over pumpkins.
#8 by Stuart Winton on October 30, 2011 - 10:49 am
No Indy, it isn’t me who “urges the Scottish Government to take steps to bring back the tumshie.”
But if your party’s MSP thinks your party’s government should do something about it then I was just using some examples from another context. Personally I don’t think it’s a big issue, and there are plenty of others that your MSPs could be spending their time on.
Anyway, I wouldn’t get too holier-than-thou about these more important issues either in view of the fact that the smoking ban hasn’t changed the trend in the number of people smoking, and neither minimum pricing nor your anti-sectarian legislation will make much of a difference either.
And you may recall that Jeff’s post was partly tongue-in-cheek and indeed he was calling for jokes on the subject.
Well perhaps mine wasn’t particularly funny – or maybe you’ve suffered a sense of humour failure – but no one else seems to be making much of an attempt.
#9 by Doug Daniel on October 30, 2011 - 9:34 pm
“the smoking ban hasn’t changed the trend in the number of people smoking”
Even if that’s true, it’s made a hell of a difference to those of us who are no longer forced to breathe it in just to socialise with people. It used to particularly annoy me if I was the designated driver for the night and still came out stinking. Or you would just pop into the pub at lunchtime, and come out reeking.
The smoking ban wasn’t really about stopping people from smoking – there are other measures for doing that – it was about those who chose not to smoke, and yet still had to put up with smoke anyway, particularly those who had to work in those environments.
#10 by Alexander Belic on October 28, 2011 - 11:45 am
I’ve only had 1 pair of kids chap my door for halloween since moving to Glasgow 4 years ago – who evidently didn’t enjoy their caramel wafers as they’ve never been back – so I’m not sure if halloween is even that widely celebrated anymore beyond the horror films on TV.
Certainly when I was in primary school back near Loch Lomond, we all called it guising but when somebody opened the door you definitely said, “trick or treat” rather than “I’m here for your sweets”, that just seemed politer.
As for trying to curb the use of pumpkins, who can honestly say they’d rather eat tumshie pie?
#11 by Scottish republic on October 28, 2011 - 1:32 pm
I suppose it’s just highlighting that the Scottish Halloween festival is dying.
That Guy Fawkes celebration is anathema to Halloween.
I celebrate Halloween night with my kids not the 5th of November with all its political/sectarian connotations.
#12 by Gareth on October 28, 2011 - 2:44 pm
The cost for the clerks at the Parliament to publish this motion and any othe costs associated with motions are said to be around £45.
What annoys me is there are far more important issues MSPs of all parties should be focussing on and this is not one.
When Christine published her motion – there was a debate on in the chamber about Scots Law and as the Convener of the Justice Committee, her focus should have been there.
#13 by James on October 28, 2011 - 2:51 pm
To be fair, I’m sure one of her members of staff lodged it as her.
#14 by Daniel J on October 28, 2011 - 10:09 pm
It astounds me that it can cost that much. Just give them a free message board ;). Or outsource it to me. I’ll do it for £20 a pop..
#15 by Craig on October 28, 2011 - 11:20 pm
And that makes it better?
A few years ago when TheyWorkForYou first started, there were MPs asking pointless questions and starting/signing motions all the time just to boost their rankings. Questions can be even worse in terms of cost, with some needing answers running into hundreds of pounds.
TheyWorkForYou may have changed their system, reducing the number of “spam” questions/motions, but the underlying fact remains that many MPs and MSPs continue to lodge pointless questions and motions in order to fill their constituency literature and get column inches rather than for the purposes of aiding their constituents and holding the government of the day to account properly as intended.
#16 by Ben Achie on October 28, 2011 - 7:26 pm
Tradition matters, and there’s a lot more to Halloween in northern rural communities than the foregoing comments suggest. Guising was really exciting when I was a kid – we were tiny (it finished with primary schoo)l, and there was no adult accompaniment.
It was only when I got to know places like Orkney and Wester Ross that I became aware of adult (well, at least youth, antics, too). Virtually impossible things happened, and the whole art was to make these as improbably as could be.
The really fascinating aspect is tracing the whole thing back to our pre-Christian, i.e. pagan, past. It was (mostly) harmless, and not intentionally in any way harmful, but constituted a very healthy dose of anarchy.
Far healthier than vandalism or rioting and other mindless violence. Perhaps Christine Grahame could have phrased her motion better: bring back the lords of misrule (and no, I’m not suggesting we scrap devolution!).
Real fun is all about spontaneity, and, within the bounds of good manners and mutual respect, having “nae limits”. Folk are losing a lot of what really matters in being alive, and are being so constrained by our new “puritans”.
This tradition long survived the Reformation, and later domination by clerics. Perhaps the “trick” would have been a massive arts council grant towards such behaviour, although this was never an elite activity. I jest, but it is sad, and Scotland is the poorer for its loss of Halloween as I have known it.
#17 by Alec on October 29, 2011 - 10:27 pm
==> Perhaps Christine Grahame could have phrased her motion better: bring back the lords of misrule (and no, I’m not suggesting we scrap devolution!).
Shurely the lordsh of mishrule ish shaturnalian in bashish?
~alec
#18 by Barbarian on October 28, 2011 - 7:33 pm
What a waste of bloody time, and typical of Ms Grahame.
I know, let’s have a policy document and a proposal with the following rules:
1. Costumes must be culturally acceptable to Scotland, specifically those relating to William Wallace, Robert the Bruce or any other Scottish hero.
2. Football strips may be worn, with the exception of those of the Old Firm, as this may be in breach of current anti – sectarianism legislation.
2. A song or joke must be present at the door, and only in Scots or Gaelic. Other Celtic languages are acceptable.
3. Only songs by Rabbie Burns or the Corries may be presented.
4. The subject matter for jokes must be of the following:
300 years, the BBC propaganda, Glenrothes bye elections, Iain Gray, Conservative Party, Lib Dems, Britishness, Westminster.
Any breach of the above rules will result in “Nae Sweeties” and a rehabilitian order where the offender will be forced to watch Newsnight and any Richard Starkey programme for a month.
I’ll get me coat………………
#19 by Stuart Winton on October 30, 2011 - 10:55 am
HA HA, but since Indy’s reading I’d be careful with attempts at humour. You might well find that lot in the next WMOTW :0)
#20 by DougtheDug on October 28, 2011 - 8:04 pm
Halloween is still very big around where I live but it has become Americanised. The children who come round are still guising but they call it “trick or treating” now.
There’s actually a reason why it has become so Americanised. When I was a child there was almost no mention of it on children’s TV programs like Blue Peter. It was all Guy Fawkes night and bonfires and when my children were small all the Halloween stuff was only available in small local stores but now it’s every superstore.
Halloween hasn’t got big in the UK because it’s been imported from Scotland, the problem is that Halloween has been imported into England from the US and the traditions that the English (UK) media now promote and talk about are all from the US not Scotland.
It could be argued that the Americanisation of Halloween is because Scotland doesn’t control its own media as all the media is effectively controlled from London and we’ve been on the cultural receiving end of England’s wholesale buying into the American Halloween not the Scottish Halloween.
#21 by Observer on October 28, 2011 - 8:08 pm
Nobody makes their Halloween costume any more, it’s yet another purchase which parents have to make. We have children attending Proms, driven there in stretch limos, & trick or treating at Halloween, dressed a shop bought (usually American) character, instead of mum making the costume from bits of paper & imagination. That is Americanisation of our culture, & it is being driven by commercial interests. I am not quite sure what the government is supposed to do about it though. Another phenomena is teenage girls who actually sound American, what is that about?
#22 by Stuart Winton on October 30, 2011 - 11:02 am
Like you mean teenage girls who use the word ‘like’ all the time, like?
But I think you’re right about the commercialisation of it rather than Doug’s media control theory.
The shops go to town with things like Easter and other celebrations that a few decades ago would have been virtually ignored in the shops.
Same with the likes of this semi-myth about the influence of St Patrick’s day, which seems to be little more than an excuse to get pished on Guinness and is basically the result of a licensed trade marketing campaign.
#23 by Alec on October 30, 2011 - 12:57 pm
==> Same with the likes of this semi-myth about the influence of St Patrick’s day, which seems to be little more than an excuse to get pished on Guinness and is basically the result of a licensed trade marketing campaign.
The commercialization of Purim’s just as bad. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve seen a drunken Gentile in a Queen Esther or Haman costume puking their guts out.
~alec
#24 by Alec on October 29, 2011 - 10:16 pm
==> Whatever Happened to Halloween?
Whatever happened to the apostrophe? If I refuse to give anything to kids who don’t know where to put it.
~alec
#25 by Barbarian on October 29, 2011 - 11:30 pm
Does it matter if it is Americanised or whatever? It’s giving kids some enjoyment, and some are living in abject poverty, and this gives them a bit of fun for one day in the year.
Kids aren’t interested in whether or not we are using American traditions or what.
Yes, it being driven by commercial interests, but at the basic level it’s still some fun.
The last thing anyone wants to see is politicans dictating how people should live their lives. Alcohol and drugs, fair enough, but for goodness sakes leave the kids alone.
If you don’t like it, don’t answer your door.
Observer – the government can Christine Grahame can mind their own business.
#26 by Alec on October 30, 2011 - 12:23 pm
==> Does it matter if it is Americanised or whatever? It’s giving kids some enjoyment, and some are living in abject poverty, and this gives them a bit of fun for one day in the year.
Quite. There’s a hint of puritanism about it, as well as the standard jibe at “Americanization”.
The current commercial presentation of ~*whatever*~ holiday/festival is as much an ersatz version of American culture (or, more accurately, cultures) as anything else. Hallowe’en in America always was going to be different because of the influence of local Indian practices [1], and seen more in away from the areas of English Puritan and – as Grahame is making this in to a boorish wha’ like us case – austere Scots Presbyterians: it got a shot-in-the-arm during the Irish immigration of the 19th Century.
It always is amusing to see people tack-on their pre-existing narratives to anything and everything , with an inevitable appeal to how it was when they were young. Funnily, it rarely includes calling for municipal services to be running for standard pay on Xmas Day were it to fall on a weekday, or for the re-establishment of the Protestant work-ethic in the sense of Roman Catholics’ being barred from employment.
Or is the reality of how it used to be not innocent and honest enough?
There is nowt stopping Grahame or others arranging a guising party or spending an hour cowping out a swede, going wassailing or souling if they want. But, if they really really are serious about opposing a creeping ‘Americanization’, they could at least stop wearing jeans.
And learn where the apostrophe chuffin’ well goes!
~alec
[1] At which point, I expect a murmur of approval goes-up amongst those who a few minutes ago were belittling ‘Americanization)
#27 by Indy on October 30, 2011 - 1:21 pm
I don’t think it does matter because after all we gave the Americans Halloween. The tradition was brought to America by Scots and Irish settlers. And whether it’s called trick or treat or guising it is essentially the same tradition.
We gave it to America and America gave it to the world.
Well done us, that’s what I say.
#28 by Doug Daniel on October 30, 2011 - 1:39 am
“Nobody makes their Halloween costume any more, it’s yet another purchase which parents have to make.”
I once dressed up as The Undertaker, and half the fun was putting the costume together by getting a felt hat, snipping the toes and heels off a pair of grey socks, raking through our gloves to find a grey leather pair… How boring it would have been to just buy it from a shop.
The costumes me and a couple of friends put together the year we dressed up as punk thugs just wouldn’t have worked the same if they’d been bought from a shop either…
#29 by MS on October 31, 2011 - 4:05 pm
“That the Parliament notes the Americanisation of Halloween”…….Let’s look on the bright side, it’s the first time that London hasn’t been blamed!