Sir John Major gave a speech on Saturday at the Ditchley Foundation Annual Dinner. The section on devolution and Scotland created a few headlines (and I blogged about it on Sunday, albeit in a ‘churnalism’ sort of way) but the full text of Sir John’s speech was not available online.
Until now that is…
The full transcript of the ‘Devolution of Power’ section of Sir John Major’s speech is shown below (and note the calling for two referendums near the end):
DEVOLUTION OF POWER
There are options (to making Westminster less over-burdened):
Pass fewer laws – which is attractive, and to be hoped for: though I’m not holding my breath.
But we could contract more to local government and devolve more to the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Assemblies. In a cautious and incremental way, the Coalition is taking action to do this. I welcome that and encourage them to go further.
Some years ago, I opposed the creation of local Mayors. I was wrong. Mayors do put in place a dynamic and – as successive Mayors of London have shown – they can be effective megaphones for our big cities. But under present plans, Mayors will only inherit the existing powers of Council leaders: in future, I hope their remit can be widened.
There is one caveat: their power of decision should be real, not illusory, and this implies a funding responsibility to pay for – at least the majority of – their policies. When next we look at local authority finance that should be the objective.
Devolution can also reduce the Westminster workload. But there is some groundwork to be cleared first. The present quasi-federalist settlement with Scotland is unsustainable. Each year of devolution has moved Scotland further from England. Scottish ambition is fraying English tolerance. This is a tie that will snap – unless the issue is resolved.
The Union between England and Scotland cannot be maintained by constant aggravation in Scotland and appeasement in London. I believe it is time to confront the argument head on.
I opposed Devolution because I am a Unionist. I believed it would be a stepping stone to Separation.
That danger still exists. Separatists are proud Scots who believe Scotland can govern itself: in this, they are surely right. So they point up grievances because their case thrives on discontent with the status quo. But even master magicians need props for their illusions: remove the props, and the illusion vanishes.
The props are grievances about power retained at Westminster. The present Scotland Bill does offer more power to the Scottish Parliament. But why not go further? Why not devolve all responsibilities except foreign policy, defence and management of the economy?
Why not let Scotland have wider tax-raising powers to pay for their policies and, in return, abolish the present block grant settlement, reduce Scottish representation in the Commons, and cut the legislative burden at Westminster?
My own view on Scottish independence is very straightforward: it would be folly – bad for Scotland and bad for England – but, if Scots insist on it, England cannot – and should not – deny them.
England is their partner in the Union, not their overlord. But Unionists have a responsibility to tell Scotland what independence entails.
A referendum in favour of separation is only the beginning. The terms must then be negotiated and a further referendum held.
These terms might deter many Scots. No Barnett Formula. No Block Grant. No more representation at Westminster. No automatic help with crises such as Royal Bank of Scotland. I daresay free prescriptions would end and tuition fees begin.
And there is no certainty of membership of the EU. Scotland would have to apply, meet tough criteria, await lengthy negotiations and would find countries like Spain – concerned at losing Catalonia – might not hold out a welcome for Separatists. And, even if Scotland were admitted, they would find their voice of 5 million is lost and powerless in a Union of 500 million.
But it must, ultimately, be their choice.
(attribution – The Ditchley Foundation)
#1 by Gary Cocker on July 13, 2011 - 6:52 pm
Aside from the obvious disagreements I have with Major’s views (and in particular the last line- at the moment we’re vastly underrepresented in the EU Parliament with only 6 MEPs when 12 or 13 would be more in line with nations of a similar population), I’ve always found him to be a measured and reasoned Unionist that I’ve a lot of personal (if not political) respect for.
The type of confederal/”Devo Max” option he’s outlined above is one that I think many who would be stubbornly opposed to independence would be comfortable with or would at least see as a lesser evil. As the son of Unionists, I know of at least 2 people who would vote for this option but not the whole hog.
#2 by DougtheDug on July 13, 2011 - 9:25 pm
Not exactly a radical departure from the usual unionist view of Scotland and the usual solutions. Here is a summary of what he said:
1. Scotland is always picking fights with England.
2. The call for independence is based grudge and grievance.
3. Make Scotland pay for its own services but don’t mention the oil.
4. Unlike every other country Scotland needs two independence referendums.
5. Independence will mean no Barnett formula, no block grant and no MP’s in Westminster. The horror, the horror.
6. The EU won’t want a country with most of the EC’s current oil resources and one of its most productive fisheries.
7. Scotland is more powerful as a region than it would be as a country.
I think that summarises the speech fairly well
#3 by An Duine Gruamach on July 14, 2011 - 9:43 am
I think that’s about the size of it. Good summary.
#4 by Scottish republic on July 13, 2011 - 11:42 pm
I begin to think Scotland might be better off out of the EU.
#5 by Angus McLellan on July 14, 2011 - 1:57 am
Thanks for digging up the full speech. The message is pretty much the same as that set out in the press release.
The star of the show when this was covered on Newsnight was Alan Cochrane and the best line was his pronouncement that he’d sooner trust Labour than the Tories where the Union is concerned. So why on earth is he writing for the Torygraph? And does this mean that Labour’s gone from being the party of the trades unionists to being the party of the ultra unionists?
The duo of Fry and Forsyth (James, not Michael) were a bit more sensible. Fry’s point that the Tories in Scotland need to do something radical if they are ever to recover seems reasonable – everything else has failed – and Devomax would at least provide them with a USP. And apparently some people like the concept, even if Doug doesn’t.
#6 by Doug Daniel on July 15, 2011 - 7:43 am
I thought Cochrane’s best line was “independence is a stepping stone to independence”.
#7 by Indy on July 14, 2011 - 7:29 am
I always feel we are a little bit unfair on English politicians talking about Scottish independence. In some ways it is difficult enough for Scottish politicians to get a real grip on the issues so it is not remarkable that many English politicians and commentators don’t get it.
#8 by Tom Cresswell on July 14, 2011 - 3:28 pm
The one issue I have with this is the “reduce Scottish representation in the Commons”…
It’s a bit vague, does he mean English votes on English Laws (which is a fair trade) or a reduction in Scottish MPs? If its the latter, its not exactly a fair deal for either side (“yes it’s true that you have much reduced say on the bills that will actually affect Scotland, but look on the bright side, you can vote on all these other issues that mean nothing to you”).
The best way to settle it would be to devolve entire departments to the Scottish Government rather then do what Labour did, which was to devolve all but a mish mash of powers meaning that we are in a situation where whilst only two departments are completely devolved (Local Government and Education. All others including Health, DEFRA and Transport, whilst its often said that they are devolved, they all have some often quite significant powers reserved for Westminster), and even issues that are devolved still affect Scotland through Barnett Consequentials.
For example, if we devolve entire departments under Majors plans, the Foreign Office, International Development, Ministry of Defence would operate fully over Scotland; parts of the Treasury (financial regulation & currency), the Home Office (UK counter-terrorism I guess) and probably Justice as well (an improved and reformed UK Supreme Court) would remain, whereas the rest of these and all other departments would be devolved. If a bill is proposed by a Department that has jurisdiction over Scotland then Scottish MPs can vote on it, if not they can’t. In the event that a devolved department does have some impact on Scotland (eg. if we kept the DVLA, transport), then it could become a power of the speaker to grant permission for Scottish MPs to vote on clauses or propose amendments.
As much as I would be willing to live under this Governmental proposal and also feel it to be the fairest and most workable solution to devolution max, I can’t help but think independence would just be easier…
#9 by Davie Park on July 15, 2011 - 10:23 am
True enough Indy. So why do they insist on making pronouncements about things they know so little about?
A line that is indicative of the value of Sir John’s speech is this:
” I daresay free prescriptions would end and tuition fees begin.”
‘Dare you’ indeed? Well, you can’t argue with facts like that!
I daresay that, post independence, rUK will be riven by civil war and plagues of locusts.
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#10 by Angus McLellan on July 22, 2011 - 5:34 pm
Well, in the absence of anything better to comment on, I suppose necromancy will have to do.
Moore’s pronouncement last week that devolving corp. tax would be an unmitigated catastrophe – civil war or plagues of locusts weren’t forecast, but rains of blood might have been – wasn’t really a surprise. But it’s not like Moore is a federalist, is it? LibDems were never in favour of that and the Steel Report had nothing to do with them.
The HMRC expert report which supposedly substantiated these dire prognostications was given a good thrashing by Hervey Gibson in the Scotsman the other day and David Gauke (Con, SW Herts; Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury) has replied in today’s paper. Given the number of trees that have died so that the Scotsman could publish positive stories about “devomax” and “full fiscal autonomy”, I’m thinking we’ve not heard the last of this.
Not so much a case of everyone singing off the same hymn sheet then and more of a bungling, amateur version of I’m Sorry I Haven’t A Clue’s “One song to the tune of another” game. And when you think about it, there tends to be quite a lot of “Uxbridge English Dictionary” around too, with words being redefined for laughs and votes. So I have to ask: ISIHAC and Scottish politics separated at birth? I think we should be told.