This time two months ago, Jeff, Malc and I were working ourselves into a lather with prediction-itis. And getting most of it horribly wrong. Meanwhile, James was otherwise engaged with proper politicking on the Scottish Greens’ election campaign. The polls suggested that the Greens would take anything between 5 and 8 per cent of the regional vote:  a big break-through was beckoning, or at least a return to a 2003-sized Holyrood group.
Not that I care to crow – much – but this here burd trumped the Better Nation boys. Three Green seats I think I said.
As it turned out, the Scottish Greens did well to return with two MSPs intact. In the face of the SNP juggernaut, it alone managed to hold its vote at regional level and at least stand still in terms of parliamentary arithmetic. I’m sure it was a huge disappointment to everyone in the Scottish Green Party and to many others but, putting it all in perspective, it wasn’t actually a bad result and it’s hard to see what else the party might have done to turn it into a great one.
But what do they now? They have reached a fork in the electoral road – which route do they take?
There was much to admire in the Scottish Greens’ election campaign and manifesto, not least their dogged insistence on relatively unfashionable leftist economic policies. But the outstanding memory I have is how Alex Salmond and the SNP effectively out-greened them. Sure, on the little stuff – on recycling, on community based issues, the Scottish Greens were solid and worthy. But on the big stuff – the renewable vision thing, of how it could create a real Scottish economic identity, and jobs – real jobs – in the future, well, the SNP won hands down.
It marked the difference in the level of ambition between the two parties: one aspired to be the next government, the other contented itself with being the home for protest votes.
And the problem with being the erstwhile recipient of the protest vote is that it is fly-by-night.  It cannot be relied upon. Given its relative youth in party years, this might suffice but it does not provide a solid springboard for increased membership or indeed, representation.
The Scottish Greens have to decide if they wish to become a serious electoral threat. The right strategy and tactics can pay dividends, as Caroline Lucas and the Brighton Greens can testify.
To replicate their success, the Scottish Greens need to grow and broaden their appeal. For starters, that means increasing the membership. The current membership levels are more reminiscent of a club not a fully-fledged political party – with very little effort, the membership could be doubled or even trebled.
Appropriate targeting would encourage members of other parties to switch but also encourage currently non-aligned people to sign up. And that means getting the demographics right – it’s friends for life the Greens want, not the fairweathered variety.
At the same time, a stronger activist base is required. The Scottish Greens have a great opportunity to make considerable gains at the local government elections in a year’s time but only if they get candidates in place soon-ish and get out there and work. In local media, on local issues and on local doorsteps. There is definitely a gap in the market for a principled and oppositional party to fight hard on local community issues, to offer something different from the mainstream.
Success at this level does not require a national campaign; instead, the Scottish Greens need to focus relentlessly on winnable wards and concentrate effort in particular councils. Some high profile gains in certain councils could propel the party into a king-making role (if they want it) and would have much greater impact than a smattering of Green councillors across the board. To achieve this will involve someone sitting down and reviewing the local scenes, doing the maths and applying the science. Winning hearts sometimes involves targeting minds.
But before tackling any of this, the Scottish Greens need to think about their party’s personality. It is currently dominated by their ace in the pack, their co-convenor, Patrick Harvie MSP. If the SNP can be accused of being a one-man band, what can be said about the Scottish Greens? Moreover, the party is more of a movement, fluid and free-flowing, yet electoral success requires discipline, structure and format. Not something that will sit easy with many of its members.
Finally, there is the adherence to principle and refusal to bend to pragmatism. A lofty, highly laudable position to adapt but realistic? How attractive is it to the majority of people who try to be Green but do not always succeed? Who aspire to Greendom but know that practicalities often get in the way? How Green do you have to be to “be a Green”? At times, it can seem as though rather than engage with the reality of politics, the party is keener on taking an outer stance and sticking to it, no matter what. At times, it can smack of posture politics. A refusal to compromise can be seen as dogmatic and downright pig-headed, turning as many voters off as on.
The Scottish Greens can continue on the path they have chosen but that might well mean being resigned to staying as they are: a small parliamentary presence on the fringes, dependent on a protest vote, that some elections might not swing their way. But if they wish to move forward, and truly become an electoral force to be reckoned with, they have some thinking to do. Some shifts, uncomfortable though these might be in the short term, might be required for long term gain.
#1 by Douglas McLellan on June 21, 2011 - 2:21 pm
An excellent piece, hitting the nail exactly on its head.
Some of the SGP policies were excellent, realistic and should have been appealing to the majority of people in Scotland – the stuff around Common Good Land for example. They are, however, as about as left as a party can be in Scotland without actually using the word socialist in their manifestos and press releases. I would argue that this makes them to left for most non-Socialists and yet not socialist enough for voters that are inclined to vote SSP etc. Its a very small part of the spectrum of Scotland to sit in.
It is also possible to feel and act very “green” without signing up to the green movements Four Pillars.
I honestly dont know what the solution is (and my own party has similar positioning problems) but I do think that the Greens have placed themselves in a such a firm position when it comes to the concepts of pragmatism and compromise that any changes to their policies to achieve something/gain power/be king makers will leave them wide open to charges of hypocrisy.
#2 by Jeff on June 21, 2011 - 2:30 pm
I think an article like this is long overdue. Certainly by at least, oooh, two hours.
Â
Ok, I’m over it.Â
Â
Â
I do think you are being a bit harsh on the Greens. To suggest that the SNP “out greens them†and “won the renewable vision thing hands down†is surely stretching things to put it mildly. The Nats just have a higher pulpit and a louder voice and they only needed to outgreen Labour to win tactically voting, Green-minded voters. I refuse to accept that the environment is in safer hands with the SNP than it would be within the Greens. (NHS, economy, school etc? that’s a separate question…)
Â
The main problem that I see the Greens having is that they simply don’t get the recognition they deserve when policies that they have held for decades come to fruition from the main parties and the Greens are effectively bypassed (Greens don’t like bypasses I’ve heard). What was the SNP’s policy on renewable power 10, 20 even 30 years ago? I don’t think they can come late to the party and expect to take the lion’s share of the plaudits.
Â
I do agree about your point regarding getting more pairs of hands and feet on the ground and out there making a noise and knocking doors. If wishing made it so, I’m sure the party would say to that though. And there has been a palpable de-greening of the manifesto of late which is good. A clear position on economy, on transport and on health make SGP a more rounded party still with environment as its heartbeat. Staying true to itself, which I have no doubt it will, is the best route to success and I really think it’ll get there as a continental style pluralism continues to spread across the UK.
#3 by setindarkness on June 21, 2011 - 2:50 pm
The SNP did not out green the Greens. They have promised a lot of very respectable targets on renewables and similar. Let us see whether they keep to these promises. In 5 years time, they better have done pretty well, or that green vote (small as it is now) will be heading elsewhere. You only have to look at the Trump saga to wonder how thin the green paint is.
It is the usual small party problem. As Robin Harper pointed out in his book, if your getting policies into government are you still winning? even if the other parties are stealing them for their usage?
Let us imagine that 40/50 years ago, the Labour party decided that they were getting nowhere in Scotland and stole the little SNP’s idea of independence to position themselves as different to the Conservative and Unionist party. They never quite did the business, but they continually offered it at some point in the near future, setting targets and introducing devolution. Would the SNP exist in its current form now? Why vote SNP when Labour will give us independence would be the question? And after how many broken promises would those independence votes give up on Labour ?
I don’t think the SGP have failed at all. You only have to look at the UK’s “greenest government ever” as an example to see that without the small but vocal element of the 2 green MSPs, the SNP (and the other parties) had to promise a large amount of green ideas to keep the SGP down.
However, there is a lot more to “being green” than renewable targets, and I hope and think that the SGP will move onto other environmental and ecological areas that are still lacking the SG at present.
Hopefully, your other comment about it being the Patrick Harvie show will fade away as Alison Johnstone makes her mark. I can’t believe you devoted a whole post to the future of the SGP without even mentioning her.
#4 by James on June 21, 2011 - 3:08 pm
Paul, I’d go further. The renewables targets the SNP put out are fundamentally misleading. 100% of demand is what they’ve promised – i.e. enough renewables to power ourselves, but no commitment to closing down coal or nuclear. What we should be doing is going for 100% of supply, i.e. an end to fossil and nukes altogether.
#5 by setindarkness on June 21, 2011 - 3:32 pm
Yep!
And it is not even 100% of demand all energy, it is just electricity. So, they can safely ignore gas and oil.
#6 by Douglas McLellan on June 21, 2011 - 3:09 pm
I think Kate makes the point well but asking how green does someone have to be to be Green? Some Greens are pro-nuclear and others against it. Some Greens are pro-windfarms, other Greens are green-Nimbys.
What does being Green actually mean to voters as opposed to the Green party. There is, I believe, a fairly big gap between voters who like green policies and voters who share the SHP ethos.
I have yet to see Alison Johnstone in the Chamber or on TV so is it fair to think about her role in the future of the SGP. What about their non-MSP Co-convenor? Do they have other spokespeople?
#7 by James on June 21, 2011 - 3:17 pm
Douglas, that’s churlish even by your standards. Just because you didn’t see Alison on TV duiring the election that’s no reason to overlook her. Her maiden speech is here, btw.
Also, I don’t know a single pro-nuclear Green in Scotland, nor one who doesn’t support well-sited wind turbines.
#8 by Douglas McLellan on June 21, 2011 - 3:30 pm
Churlish? What did I say now?
I didnt overlook her. All I said asked was it fair to think about her future role when her abilities, to non-greens, have not been widely demonstrated. And I asked about the co-convenor role. It was a role that Caroline Lucas exploited well in terms of her success in Brighton. The profile of other people in the party could also be raised which would raise the profile of the party even more beyond it being, as has been, heavily reliant on Patrick Harvie.
I generally know when I am vexing people but that was so not what I had in mind when I wrote that.
The point about being Green still stands. You said you dont know a pro-Nuclear Green? What is the definition of Green? A SGP member?
#9 by Jeff on June 21, 2011 - 3:42 pm
I think it’s pretty clear what the confusion is, I think you fluffed your lines a little bit Douglas but I took your comment as being that you couldn’t comment on Alison as you don’t know much about her and haven’t seen her (which is fair, I’m in the same boat). James took your wording more literally as being that noone should comment on AJ because you haven’t seen her on TV.
So, I’d like to add an SGP problem to the list – do they jump the gun with knee-jerk reactions and make mountains of molehills without checking the facts? 😉
#10 by Douglas McLellan on June 21, 2011 - 4:00 pm
Actually to be fair my meaning was a lot closer to what James took it to mean. But yes, I fluffed my lines.
Although not as much a political hack as many people here and on twitter I think it is fair to say that I am more knowledgable about politics that a fairly large chunk of the Scottish population. But I am not in a position to rate Alison Johnstones role in the future of the SGP.
Paul asked how could there have been a post regarding the future of the SGP without reference to Alison Johnstone. I dont know how much Kate has seen of Alison but if she was in a position to rate her role in the future of the SGP the we can be sure that Kate would have. Especially given that Alison is a woman. How can someone writing something about the future role of someone when they know little or nothing about them? It may well be that I get to know her, and rate her has highly as, say, Nicola Sturgeon. Or it may go the other way and rate her as low as Helen Eadie. We just dont know.
#11 by James on June 21, 2011 - 4:04 pm
Kate has mentioned her before.
#12 by Douglas McLellan on June 21, 2011 - 4:10 pm
Fine. You are not getting close to even understanding what I am trying to say so I shall stop now.
#13 by setindarkness on June 21, 2011 - 4:19 pm
I’m sure Kate does know something about her, which is why I’m surprised by the omission.
I was only trying to draw Alison into the discussion, not be drawn into the reasoning behind her omission. I’m sure Kate will pop up soon with a response 😉
#14 by James on June 21, 2011 - 3:11 pm
Kate, as you know, I’m not sure which areas you think compromise should come on. In the last session we voted for Budgets with serious negatives in them (from our uncompromising perspective) because we’d won some substantial improvements in other areas. That sounds like compromise enough for me.
#15 by Top Tory Aide on June 21, 2011 - 3:20 pm
There really is no need for a Green party in Scotland now that the policies that they stand for have become policies also advocated by mainstream political parties.
The SNP have been hugely successful in promoting their own green credentials and that, more than anything, resulted in the Green Party being unable to increase their representation.
#16 by James on June 21, 2011 - 3:24 pm
Ha! That’s right, the oil-drilling, motorway-building, coal-loving, flatline-carbon-target-proposing SNP have adopted all our policies.
#17 by Top Tory Aide on June 21, 2011 - 3:25 pm
I was not suggesting that the SNP are more green than the Greens but they have certainly been successful in promoting themselves as being more green.
#18 by Douglas McLellan on June 21, 2011 - 4:20 pm
I dont think that they are more green. I think though that they have articulated something that is green enough for most people of Scotland. You can want a green economy yet also want to build a new bridge. You can want to regenerate Scotland’s marine environment yet also support drilling for oil (though that is a much smaller overlap).
I think that the SGP have to make feel that the SNP are not green enough for Scotland. Which I think is a tough ask.
#19 by setindarkness on June 21, 2011 - 3:29 pm
I think its fair when discussing the future of a party to mention these other people, yes. The problem at the last election, I understand, was that the media only wanted to talk to Patrick.
Also, “how green does someone have to be to be a Green?” enough with the labels!
The main problem is that people think they are green enough not to have to vote SGP!
“Hey, I don’t have to care about the environment as I voted SNP and they promised all these great things about renewable energy so don’t have to really think about the world’s problems. ”
p.s. I think I can only say this because I’m not a member of the Scottish Green Party.
p.p.s I am/have been equally guilty of this myself.
#20 by Jeff on June 21, 2011 - 3:32 pm
It’s not just about the environment of course (and yesterday’s news that the seas are in a worst state than thought is a big deal for Scotland with, what, one of the biggest coastlines in Europe?).
I’m genuinely surprised more people didn’t take the Greens up on the ‘let’s tax a bit more so we can afford a bit more’ direction of travel at the last election, not to mention LVT.
#21 by setindarkness on June 21, 2011 - 3:42 pm
True. I guess I was in the minority of the “tax more” department. I think the election was the wrong time for LVT. Let’s hope it gets a lot more publicity over the next 5 years.
#22 by Douglas McLellan on June 21, 2011 - 3:46 pm
I am not surprised that the income tax thing wasn’t more popular. With other taxes and costs rising I dont think many people wanted to pay out more without seeing what the benefits of it would have been. There is still waste and duplication in the public sector as well as Scot Gov expenditure on things that comparatively few people want. People will want that addressed prior to increases in taxes.
I think the LVT policy was lost in the entire council tax freeze issue. That and some weaknesses in the presentation of it in a couple places.
#23 by James on June 21, 2011 - 3:50 pm
As in, 87.5% of households would have been better off?
The root of the problem there was simply the scale of our megaphone. A tax cut for almost 9/10 people that raises money from big business and the richest ought to have been more popular than a tax freeze and substantial cuts to public services.
#24 by Douglas McLellan on June 21, 2011 - 4:03 pm
Thats a combined position of LVT changes and income tax rises?
And I agreed that the LVT message was lost.
Although I find the use of the word “ought” quite interesting.
#25 by Indy on June 21, 2011 - 4:10 pm
The thing is if you wanted to get LVT onto the agenda for the 2011 campaign you should have started campaigning for it around the beginning of 2009. There should have been a website explaining the whole blooming thing and leaflets and newsletters and facebook pages inn terms of external publicity plus a ruthless focus on it within the Scottish Parly.
If it is true that elections are won in peace-time it is even more true that peace-time is when you ought to be campaigning to get particular policies onto the agenda because you will never be able to do it during the campaign.
#26 by setindarkness on June 21, 2011 - 4:28 pm
totally agree with this comment. I did think it was the wrong time to introduce the idea of LVT.
#27 by James on June 21, 2011 - 4:37 pm
Again, this is just when we started getting heard about it, not when we started work on it.
Robin worked on it in the first session, Patrick got wording through Holyrood in 2009, then Andy Wightman’s report came out in 2010.
#28 by Indy on June 21, 2011 - 4:52 pm
That report is hard going. You need an idiot’s guide that people can make sense of without having to plough through that document. Just the sight of it is enough to put most people off.
I will be the idiot you can test it on if you like cos I still don;t quite “get it” – though if it does everything you say it does it sounds a damn good idea.
#29 by James on June 21, 2011 - 4:59 pm
Indy, Andy’ll be gutted to hear that – he did pride himself on making it as accessible as possible. Here’s the intro pamphlet: is that any better?
#30 by setindarkness on June 21, 2011 - 5:00 pm
This may be a problem with your website and the resource for it – I didn’t see much there before the election – Now, I can find a press release sort of thing on fairer taxes but it only has a link to Andy’s report
I mean, I knew about the report but the general public wouldn’t.
#31 by Douglas McLellan on June 21, 2011 - 5:23 pm
Really Indy? I did a lot of research into council tax replacement after the 2007 election and again for the LIT consultation the Scot Gov did in. That report was by far the easiest thing I’ve read on LIT.
The only thing I would say is that it muddies the waters between personal and business taxation which if you dont know or care about business rates could mean it would hard to gain understanding.
#32 by Douglas McLellan on June 21, 2011 - 4:45 pm
To be fair it was in the SGP manifestos since 1999. Usually as a single line or two I think. The Wightman report was done in around August 2010 but it never caught the publics imagination in a positive way. There were the ‘garden tax’ headlines in 08 and before which showed a lack of understanding I think about LVT which is possibly one of the reasons the report was commissioned.
#33 by Daniel J on June 21, 2011 - 9:13 pm
I’ll agree that LVT is a bit dense. Most SGP activists that I know- including me – don’t seem to get it..
#34 by Indy on June 21, 2011 - 3:50 pm
I think the problem for the Greens in electoral terms is two-fold. Firstly it is hard to get a lot of national media coverage, especially in an election like the recent one which is so polarised between two parties. Voters just don’t get the chance to really hear what the Greens are saying and although I thought the PEB was good how many people actually watched it?
And secondly the proportional system the Scottish Parliament has can work against you, as well as for you, in terms of growing your representation. A second vote strategy too easily comes over as a second choice strategy. That strategy worked pretty well in 1999 but in the context of a much more polarised campaign (and one where both Labour and the SNP were fighting just as hard to get list as well as constituency votes) it was not effective. So, in parliamentary terms, if I was a Green I would be arguing for contesting at least one constituency in each region next time around as well as standing on the list.
The council elections offer a better prospect because it is STV but, again, I think these elections are going to be very polarised between Labour and the SNP in the central belt, especially in Glasgow, so the Greens need to think quite hard about how they can avoid getting squeezed out. For example the SNP are certainly going to stand more candidates in areas like Glasgow because they are going to try and win. How will the Greens handle that? If I was them I would maybe be considering making a direct pitch for the former Lib Dem voters as well as trying to pick up second and third preferences from SNP, Labour and indeed Tory voters. (And I would agree with Douglas on the issue of the unwisdom of the Greens taking a very leftist position especially in an STV election because in some of the wards you may do well in you may well need to make a pitch for the unused preferences of Lib Dem/Tory voters to get elected.)
Having said that, I do think the local elections offer a better prospect for seriously increasing the number of Green councillors – and that would give the Green Party the basis to increase the number of MSPs next time if they can start to build a real; platform in communities. Somebody like Danny Alderslowe is a good example of how to do that.
#35 by douglas clark on June 21, 2011 - 4:37 pm
Contrary to what some other commentators have had to say I think that there is a reasonable gap in the market for a Scottish Socialist Green Party. Indeed, if you forget about the Green elements of the Green Parties’ policies they are fairly radical left, for instance the idea of mutuality and credit unions. As I cannot see the SSP or Respect recovering there are votes to be picked up there along with disaffected socialist who may wish to desert Labour but can’t face voting SNP. I’d have thought that might be enough of a constituency to get at least a few seats on Glasgow City Council.
#36 by Indy on June 21, 2011 - 5:19 pm
yes that’s easier. I will get round to reading the whole paper at some point, honest!
James:
Indy, Andy’ll be gutted to hear that – he did pride himself on making it as accessible as possible. Here’s the intro pamphlet: is that any better?
#37 by Indy on June 21, 2011 - 5:56 pm
Yes I don’t mean that it is unreadable or particularly complex or anything. What I meant is that the average voter is not going to take the time to sit down and read through a 26 page paper to get the ghist of an idea. After all I have not yet taken the time to do that – and I am probably a lot more motivated to read up on things like that than most voters. So in terms of communicating LVT I think the Greens need to look at a way of simplifying it for a mass audience because it could be a good campaign issue for them both locally and building towards the next Scottish election and you never know they could even get the SNP to look at it again.
Douglas McLellan:
Really Indy? I did a lot of research into council tax replacement after the 2007 election and again for the LIT consultation the Scot Gov did in. That report was by far the easiest thing I’ve read on LIT.
The only thing I would say is that it muddies the waters between personal and business taxation which if you dont know or care about business rates could mean it would hard to gain understanding.
#38 by James on June 21, 2011 - 6:21 pm
Yeah, we never really expected that to hit a mass audience, that’s true. PA copy was more likely to get to them. There are some in the SNP (Rob Gibson, Jim Mather, Fiona Hyslop) who’ve expressed an interest in the past.
#39 by Steve on June 21, 2011 - 10:15 pm
Since you are talking about local tax, one of the biggest disappointments I had with the greens during the SNP minority years was that despite holding the balance of power on the issue of local taxation, with the parliament equally divided between favouring council tax or LIT, the greens didn’t use that position to further the cause for progressive taxation.
That indicated to me that they weren’t really capable of moving in policy terms in order to get a deal even if that would bring benefits to ordinary people in Scotland.
#40 by James on June 22, 2011 - 8:00 am
Steve, we worked hard on tax, but there was a clear majority against two unfair and unsuitable taxes in the last session: both Council Tax and the SNP’s LIT. The latter, unlike UK income tax, even exempted those who get their income from shareholdings, as well as abolishing property tax in a way no socialist could surely support, rather than replacing it with a progressive one, which remains our preference.
#41 by Steve on June 22, 2011 - 9:12 am
Yeah well, I’m a democrat, there was majority support for LIT at the time in Scotland and there was a clear majority against the council tax.
The LIT could easily have been amended to include income from shares and savings if that’s your problem, or you could have had a bit of both, perhaps using SVR to reduce the overall levels and making up the rest with a reformed council tax or property tax or LVT.
Or you could have offered to team up with those seeking a reformed council tax in exchange for work moving NDR towards LVT which would have been a great result.
Instead what we got was we’re right, everyone else is wrong, so we’re not playing. With two MSPs you should have been more realistic about your mandate, and what the wider electorate wanted.
It’s not all the Greens’ fault of course, the SNP could have chosen to introduce legislation to abolish the council tax and let the parliament thrash out what it wanted to replace it with, that would have been open and democratic.
But for me that perception, that you can’t make compromises and do deals is damaging especially when your pitch to the electorate (as it was partly last time) is vote for us to influence whoever forms the Government.
Tactically, the tories were the only ones who got opposition right last time, claiming responsibility for high profile achievements like more police, CT freeze etc.
#42 by James on June 22, 2011 - 9:49 am
We talked to them about compromise options, notably local authorities being able to pick from a range of local taxes, but it was their way or the highway. And we weren’t prepared to have such a high proportion of the tax base resting on working people rather than the asset-richest in Scotland. I’m surprised that isn’t a no-brainer for a socialist to understand.
#43 by Steve on June 22, 2011 - 10:19 am
I can tell you’re enjoying this thread James!
The local tax issue is now history, and I was really only using it as an example of how I think the Greens should have done more publicly to demonstrate that they were trying to get things done in the way the tories seemed to do quite successfully.
If there is a lesson to learn looking forward, I think it is around how the Greens engage with the independence debate. If the SNP weren’t open to influence as a minority government, they are going to be really hard to influence now they have a majority.
But as the only other pro-independence party in the Parliament I think the Greens need to work hard to get their voice heard outwith the Parliament sphere to talk about the kind of Scotland they want to see, not least because I think that they will be able to articulate a vision that will resonate widely amongst the engaged electorate.
Speaking to the independence debate also helps the Greens to establish their credentials as party with a full range of policies etc, I know some people still see the Greens as being all about the environment and not much else, even though that’s unfair.
#44 by John Cooper on June 21, 2011 - 10:44 pm
I’ve watched from the deep south as the Scottish parliament has matured. I use that phrase carefully as someone who lived in scotland when it was created, voted in the second s.p election and watched the last two via the internet from a sofa in England.
While the opening post has much SNP bluster in it – it misses a major issue. The Scottish Parliament has stopped being a radical new toy for the scottish electorate – instead it has become part of ‘the system’. I would be interested to see long term tracking of individuals and their approach to elections to see if they have ‘moderated’ their views to fit a new (pro snp) consensus which shut them off to other parties they may have considered previously.
Alongside this, not appearing in the Leaders debate wouldn’t have helped.
#45 by Ross on June 21, 2011 - 11:45 pm
The simplest way for us to really make substantial gains in the way GPEW has done is vastly more effective targetting but particularly outwith election time.
In terms of Westminster, we need to pick a seat, probably in Edinburgh and target it effeciently over the next 5-10 years absolute minimum before we can realistically think of truly contesting it with a chance of winning.
In Holyrood we should be standing our top list candidate in each region in the most promising looking constituency as well eg Glasgow Kelvin.
For local government elections we simply need to pick target wards, stand paper candidates in the rest and go door to door in those wards all year every year speaking to people.
We do keep to our principles far more than any other parliamentary party though we are by no means lacking in pragmatism. It is the reforms that GPEW went through internally that we may need to consider, ie a party leader rather than two co-convenors (unless they were both serving MSPs or elected representatives in some way?). I was bitterly dissappointed not to see Eleanor returned after all her efforts but I do feel that with Patrick as the public face of the party in the eyes of the media the title of co-convenor devalues both him and us as the other co-convenor is not in the public view.
The SGP can keep its core beliefs whilst becoming more (dare i say it) mainstream (shudder!). The media have no particular interest in us as it is so we must go to them, we must show why we should be taken seriously and the easiest way to do that is to make targetted and significant gains next year.
An MEP in 2014 would help too.
#46 by James on June 22, 2011 - 10:26 am
Although actually we got pretty decent media this time round, debates excepted..
#47 by Holyroodpatter on June 22, 2011 - 10:59 am
I think comments 2, 3 and 4 sum up the problem, as oppressive as navel gazing is, the tendency to blame others and the circumstances is why the greens will struggle to get back to 03 standards. Their manifesto was good, very good, and I’m nit the only nat who would like to see some of it implemented. However, I am also not the only one to notice the oblique references to the casual attitude of the greens to coalescing with labour, and seemingly resting on the laurels of their poll ratings. (remember pat not wanting to lead a group of two?)the SNP never would claim to out greening the greens or even being more left wing, but saying that the SNP were just as bad as the reactionary right wing rump of a labour party was a criminal and costly misappropriation
#48 by James on June 22, 2011 - 11:07 am
We rested on nothing. And I genuinely have no idea what your last sentence means.
#49 by Holyroodpatter on June 22, 2011 - 11:20 am
Essentially hinting that they were open to a coalition with who won the election
#50 by setindarkness on June 22, 2011 - 12:02 pm
S’funny – on the one hand people are complaining the Greens wouldn’t compromise, on the other they were too open at offering to talk to whoever won the election.
#51 by Christian Schmidt on June 22, 2011 - 9:09 pm
So what if the Greens were out-greened by Salmond or anyone? The Greens are a programme party (not a single-issue party or a world-view party), and if other parties start to implement part of the Green Party programme, we just asked for the next bit.
Doing so might not always lead to wonderful election results (many voters feel enough has been done), but it is the way the party works and what keeps it going even after mediocre results.
For the same reason the party would easily survive without Pats – it’s core programme that keeps it together.
#52 by Stephen Wood on June 22, 2011 - 10:09 pm
Fascinating post – and I have to say, a really honest and illuminating set of comments afterwards. Not often you get that on a politics thread! Thanks all. 😉