“So when the music stops, you all rush round to a committee room and grab a chair. First to the convenor’s gets it.”
Well, it might have made the appointment of committee convenors a bit more exciting, and much as there are some good folk appointed, Margo Macdonald has a point. Why should these parliamentary appointments be decided by party leaders and not by MSPs? Even Westminister does it this way now and it seems to make for a better system in which everyone can trust.
Not that there is anything untrustworthy in any of the convenors appointed yesterday, it’s just that the immediate reaction to them is to try and work out why the First Minister, the LOLITSP and leader of the Tories chose that particular person for that particular berth. We start to look for conspiracy theories when there aren’t any. Probably.
Anyone or anything notable then?
The apportionment of committee convenors doesn’t half show up the size and scale of the SNP victory in all its glory. They got nine convenorships, Labour four and the Conservatives one. Wow.
And in a wholly unconsensual move, they bagged all the biggies and potentially controversial ones for themselves – finance, education, justice and local government. But nice of them to be magnanimous enough to offer health to Labour. To be honest, if it was me, I’d have done the same. Nicola Sturgeon is teflon-coated and it will be hard for the opposition to land a blow but the other areas do require some degree of protection.
But what goes on in committees is not just down to their convenors – if Labour places the right people in the right seats then they could still have some fun unpicking the budget, the McCormac review, the anti-sectarianism bill and public sector reform.
Moreover, Christine Grahame in the justice hot seat has proven herself independent enough in the past to marshall an effective and troublesome committee. Her legal knowledge will stand her in good stead here too.
Kenneth Gibson is also a wily character and while he will ensure there are no public fall-outs, expect him to be spending a lot of time behind closed doors making plain his committee’s views on things. Stewart Maxwell had a junior ministerial brief for a time so has plenty of experience, though not much of it on education matters. He will be a safe pair of hands for what is likely to be a big and at times controversial policy area. Reflecting the creation of a new ministerial portfolio, we now have a committee for infrastructure and capital investment. And I’m liking Maureen Watt’s ying to Alex Neil’s yang.
As for the Labour appointments, Duncan McNeil, who did a very good job at local government last time, is rumoured to be headed to health. Let’s just say that I hope his views on parental substance misuse have mellowed so that we get some sensible policy deliberations on this very important area and not just salacious headlines.
Otherwise Labour is left with what is seen by many as the rump of mandatory committee chairs to choose from. Though audit and equal opportunities, in particular, can cause a lot of problems if handled in the right way, as Hugh Henry demonstrated ably in the last parliamentary session. Either Claudia Beamish or Siobhan McMahon at the helm of equal opportunities could do a good job: the wide-ranging remit of equalities legislation allows this committee to poke its nose into a whole host of issues. For example, the recent spate of care scandals has both an age and a disability related link.
A key thing this committee could do immediately is get its remit widened to include a human rights brief. Enacted after the structure of the Parliament was set up, there is no one committee with an overarching brief here, and the law is now beginning to have a tumultuous impact on other policy areas.
The role of the committees has never really developed as was originally intended, particularly in relation to their powers to act as an effective revising body for previous legislation. Few committees have had the time nor the inclination to rake over previous stuff but it is needed. Such has been the Parliament’s rush to legislate in previous sessions that we have laws that contradict, powers that everyone has forgotten now exist, incompatability across a number of areas, unintended consequences and some that simply have not worked the way they were intended to. Others represented a compromise at the time because parliamentary arithmetic did not allow for the original intention to be enacted. Spending a bit of time sorting some of these issues out would be a good thing.
Committees too have powers to introduce their own legislation and while it is unlikely that SNP Convenors will want to cut across their ain Programme for Government, again this is where a bit of common sense and wily tactics from the opposition could prevail, particularly for the small groups of Liberal Democrats, Greens and of course, Margo. The committees (and members’ bills) represent their best opportunity to influence the parliamentary agenda.
But for the most part, the committees will not offer up that much excitement, especially for any newbies keen to make their mark. To do so, they should look outwith the official furniture of the Parliament and find themselves an issue, that with the right approach, could attract headlines and resonate with the wider public. More on that in the next post….
#1 by Andy Wightman on June 3, 2011 - 11:11 am
I’m unclear. I though convenors had been nominated (so those are the names we know) but that it IS for committees to elect the convenor. So as of today, there are no convenors formally in place – merely nominees?
or have I got it wrong. Absolutely nothing on Scottish Parliament news pages
#2 by James on June 3, 2011 - 11:15 am
The Parliament picks which Committees are convened by MSPs from which party. By the time the Committee meets for the first time, it’s up to that party who to put up, but the names are already public. Here’s how it went for Patrick on TICC last time.
#3 by Lily on June 3, 2011 - 11:29 am
Agree with you about widening the Equal Opps committee brief to include human rights, think it’s about time we had some accountability to elected representatives on that front. Generally, it’s going to be interesting to see how having a majority government impacts on committee functioning – and what that means for the lobbying process. ho hum.
#4 by Doug Daniel on June 3, 2011 - 3:45 pm
Presumably it’ll work exactly the same way it did under Holyrood’s first two parliamentary sessions, both of which were majority governments.
#5 by John Ruddy on June 3, 2011 - 6:30 pm
Except in the fist two terms the government was made up of two different parties who often disagreeing with one another. This government is made up of a large number of MSP’s who are only there thanks to the personality of their party leader.
#6 by Indy on June 3, 2011 - 7:24 pm
Actually they are there because real actual people voted for them.
#7 by John Ruddy on June 3, 2011 - 7:48 pm
You mean there wasnt any point to having “Alex Salmond for First Minister” on the list ballot then – makes you wonder why they bothered.
#8 by Dubbieside on June 3, 2011 - 9:09 pm
The point about having Alex Salmond as First Minister was 69 seats.
How many did you get? Oh I remember 37, you lost badly, get over it.
Just a thought, why did you not put Iain Gray for First Minister on the ballot, just think your 37 could have changed, but maybe downwards .
P.S. How many real people voted Labour?
#9 by John Ruddy on June 3, 2011 - 9:28 pm
If there were any substance to these constant claims of voting abuse by Labour, I’m sure they would be investigated – after all, you won!
#10 by Dubbieside on June 3, 2011 - 9:52 pm
My comment about real people was about your reply to Indy who said “Actually they are there because real actual people voted for them”
I thought that every person who voted at the last election came under the category “real people” My point was that a lot more real people voted SNP than voted Labour. If I did not make that clear, and I clearly touched a raw nerve, I hope this clarifies the point.
Yes we won, and won very well, but according to Labour we only won because we had “Alex Salmond for First Minister” on the ballot paper, where as Labour played very fair by hiding the fact that they wanted Iain Gray to be First Minister. As they say around here “aye right” try selling that on the doorsteps, you were hoodwinked into voting SNP, that will go down a treat with what used to be your core vote.
#11 by Indy on June 4, 2011 - 9:45 pm
Same point applies. It’s never a good idea to insult the electorate.
#12 by An Duine Gruamach on June 3, 2011 - 10:45 pm
“This government is made up of a large number of MSP’s who are only there thanks to the personality of their party leader.”
There is an art to losing graciously.
#13 by Dubbieside on June 4, 2011 - 2:21 pm
An Duine
The problem is that Labour do not think they were beaten, which is why they would never master the art of losing graciously.
The SNP only won by the devious underhand method of putting “Alex Salmond for First Minister on the ballot paper, and the electorate was hoodwinked by such an underhand stunt.
This will be corrected in May 2116 by putting “Richard Baker for First Minister” on the ballot paper.
#14 by Doug Daniel on June 4, 2011 - 4:15 pm
John, you really need to come to terms with the fact that the SNP won the election, fair and square. Your anti-SNP comments are quite unbecoming because they just come across as sour grapes. Attack policies and decisions once things start happening in parliament by all means (and tell us how Labour would do a better job), but these glib remarks about how the SNP only won because everyone thinks Alex Salmond is such a great guy is quite insulting to these MSPs, who got elected through hard work, as well as a good record of government from the party as a whole.
There’s also a lot of stone throwing going on in your glass house, bearing in mind that there is a certain core vote Labour rely on, whose allegiance to the party is based entirely on historical and paternal reasons (aka “donkey in a red rosette syndrome”).
#15 by John Ruddy on June 4, 2011 - 5:06 pm
I’m sure that we can all find examples of people who will vote for a certain party regardless of who stood for them. Last year there were many local SNP voters who thought they were returning Andrew Welsh to Westinster, despite the fact that he had left Westminster in 2001. And this year many SNP voters who didnt want our candidate because he was English, despite the fact Nigel Don is also English (the “donkey in a yellow & black rosette” syndrome, we might call it if we wanted to insult people).
#16 by Dubbieside on June 4, 2011 - 7:10 pm
I am surprise by your unusual reluctance to post a reply to my request for the names of, to quote your post 3rd June 7.25pm, the Labour backbenchers.
“In the first two terms there were plenty of backbench MSPs who didnt agree with some decision or other – from both parties”
Can we assume from your silence there were no Labour backbenchers, apart from maybe Malcolm Chisholm, who voted against the party line in the first two sessions of the Scottish Parliament?
Could that be that they were , again to quote your post,
“pressured to toe the line”
If it was never a concern in the first two sessions, why is it suddenly become a concern now? Has something changed from the good old days of the Lib/Lab stitch up?
#17 by Doug Daniel on June 5, 2011 - 8:43 pm
There are several English SNP MSPs – voted for, unsurprisingly, by SNP voters – so let’s not venture into that particular lazy territory. In fact, it’s a shame more isn’t made of the fact that people like Michael Russell are actually from England, as it would show how ridiculous it is to suggest the SNP dabbles in anglophobia.
The “donkey in a X rosette syndrome” accusation doesn’t quite work against the SNP, because the SNP still stands for what it historically always has – namely independence. The point of the jibe is that people still vote for Labour under the misapprehension that they fight for the working classes, when the reality is they started veering to the right under Kinnock, and lurched there dramatically under Blair.
The day the SNP start campaigning for Scotland to become less independent is the day SNP voters can be accused of voting for a party that no longer represents what they think they’re voting for. I can’t see that happening, though – both in terms of the party changing its stance, and in the voters sticking with them if they did.
#18 by Gryff on June 3, 2011 - 12:40 pm
I am informed that in English Councils, or perhaps just some English Councils, there is a convention that, where one party has an overall majority, committees are lead by members of opposition.
I can’t help but think that there is some appeal to this, of course the majority party can still dominate the committees, having an inbuilt majority.
Anyone see any merit in this, should it have been adopted?
#19 by Joe on June 3, 2011 - 12:52 pm
Happens at Westminster too for the likes of the Public Accounts Committee.
#20 by Tony on June 3, 2011 - 3:18 pm
Sensible check and balance I reckon.
#21 by John Ruddy on June 3, 2011 - 6:34 pm
I think its an interesting option, and I beleive that it is only on certain councils – I think it depends on the type of governance system.
In a parliamentary system, where the committees provide scrutiny of government decisions it can be beneficial. Committees to cover legislation is different, of course.
#22 by John Ruddy on June 3, 2011 - 6:29 pm
What is the formula for deciding how many committees each party gets? ON a strictly proportional basis, I reckon the SNP should have one fewer and one of the smaller parties (either the Lib Dems or the Greens) one.
#23 by DougtheDug on June 4, 2011 - 12:44 pm
The formula used is the d’ Hondt formula based on the number of MSP’s each party has in the Scottish Parliament and is strictly proportional. The 9:4:1 ratio of convenors is derived from this formula.
For 15 committees the ratio would be 9:4:2 for 16, 9:5:2.
This forumla is given under para 2.17 of “Guidance on Committees” on the Scottish Parliament website.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/parliamentaryProcedure/g-committee/cg-1.htm#216
#24 by The Burd on June 3, 2011 - 7:35 pm
Andy #1 I jumped the gun on this but the names are out in the public domain. Committee members now allocated and technically yes committees appoint their own convenor but can’t see there being much deviation from what has been announced so far.
#7 -#10 The same thing applies to Scottish councils where there is a Cabinet system with scrutiny committees being chaired by opposition members. This could apply to Holyrood as all the committees have a scrutiny function.
Something else for the Presiding Officer to sort out with a review of procedures etc. Would make a lot of sense to designate the likes of audit, equal opps, as permanent opposition led committees and perhaps also finance?
#25 by DougtheDug on June 4, 2011 - 1:01 pm
The number of convenors per party is set by the d’ Hondt formula.
Which party gets which committee is recommended by the Parliamentary Bureau who compromise:
Tricia Marwick, Presiding Officer
Bruce Crawford MSP, Minister for Parliamentary Business (Scottish National Party)
Paul Martin MSP (Scottish Labour)
David McLetchie MSP (Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
Alison McInnes MSP (Scottish Liberal Democrats)
Each member of the Parliamentary Bureau except for the PO has a block vote which is based on the size of their party but the actual decision of who gets each position of convenor is decided by the Parliament.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/parliamentaryBureau.htm
1. So the system was set up to allocate the number of convenors in proportion to the number of MSP’s each party had in Parliament.
2. The Parliamentary Bureau vote was set up to ensure that any party or coalition with a majority in Parliament also had a majority on the Parliamentary Bureau when convenors were recommended.
3. The actual assignment of convenors to committees by party was left to a vote in parliament and dependent on the numbers of MSP’s in each party.
This grumbling about the system used to allocate convenors to committees is like the grumbling about the AMS voting system which is used to elect MSP’s. Nobody cared about it until the SNP won.
#26 by James on June 4, 2011 - 2:24 pm
So on 44% of the vote the SNP get 52% of MSPs and then 64% of the convenorships? Is it possible people haven’t noticed how broken that is before because it never happened before?
#27 by DougtheDug on June 4, 2011 - 2:41 pm
What do you mean it never happened before because the election rules are the same as they ever were. The d’Hondt formula has always been used to decide which party gets the approriate number of convenors and AMS has always been used to elect the MSP’s. These are the rules which have been used since the Parliament was convened in 1999 all that’s happened is that the SNP has more MSP’s than they were meant to get by those who designed the systems to keep them out.
I never saw any complaints about it before the electorate chose the SNP to be a majority government in Holyrood. It’s all sour grapes and, “the systems are broken”, now.
#28 by James on June 4, 2011 - 2:59 pm
What I mean is that it wasn’t obvious the extent to which d’Hondt gives non-proportional results as vote shares approach 50% before. It’s not a partisan point. I’d do this under Sainte-Laguë.
#29 by John Ruddy on June 4, 2011 - 5:09 pm
I must admit I never realised that d’Hondt was able to give non-proportional results.
#30 by The Burd on June 3, 2011 - 7:42 pm
John and Lily make good points. We are all wondering what the point of lobbying the parliament with an overall majority. As the FM pointed out he and his don’t have a monopoly on wisdom so will be interesting to see what and how they ensure outside interests are included in debates and in influencing legislation.
John is spot on. And the other thing was that together Lab and Lib Dems only ever had a very narrow majority – one or two off sick, or pulling in a different direction made a lot of difference. And so the old Sco Exec was often prepared to listen and respond positively to suggested changes to legislation in particular because it did not want a bunfight on every vote.
The minority SNP government took a similar tack. Be interesting to see how the current administration behaves when it has a comfortable majority…
#31 by John Ruddy on June 3, 2011 - 7:52 pm
In the first two terms there were plenty of backbench MSPs who didnt agree with some decision or other – from both parties. I think that the large number of new SNP members who will be pressured to toe the line will make things rather different than in the last term when we had a minority Government.
#32 by Dubbieside on June 3, 2011 - 9:12 pm
Absolute rubbish.
How many experienced Labour MSPs voted against Labour in the course of the last four years?
I remember Malcolm Chisholm.
#33 by John Ruddy on June 3, 2011 - 11:15 pm
Since Labour wasnt the Government in the last 4 years, thats neither here nor there.
#34 by Dubbieside on June 3, 2011 - 11:42 pm
Ok fair enough.
Perhaps you would like to list the Labour MSPs who voted against the Lab/Lib Dem coalition in the first eight years of the Scottish Parliament.
The vast majority of them were obviously new in the first four years, but were they pressured to “toe the line”?
How many refused to “toe the line” in the second four years of the Parliament?
#35 by Brian Nicholson on June 4, 2011 - 2:38 am
As are most of your partisan comments.
#36 by John Ruddy on June 4, 2011 - 12:14 pm
Most people on here seem to make partisan comments. The fact taht they dont realise it says it all.
#37 by Dr Bill Reynolds on June 4, 2011 - 6:13 am
For me,the manner in which committee convenors behave is more important than which party they belong to.Having watched the partizan behaviour of convenors in the committees dealing with the Trump affair and the Calman bill,I was appalled.Treating witnesses with disrespect prevents a committee from effectively doing the work that it is supposed to be doing.
#38 by The Burd on June 4, 2011 - 6:18 am
That is a very good point. And to be honest, I’m not sure how we got to such partisanship, though all parties complicit in it.
If you look back at the original proposals for structure and values etc for the Parliament, the committees were supposed to act as independent scrutineers. But it has never really turned out like that. I agree wholeheartedly on witnesses.
#39 by The Burd on June 4, 2011 - 7:38 pm
Labour – Lib MSPs voting against party line – Johann Lamont on Tommy Sheridan’s bill to end poinding. Mike Rumbles voted against govt stuff several times. At least one Labour MSP abstained on adoption bill due to gay adoption – Michael McMahon I think. Elaine Smith is another who has done so. There haven’t been many but definitely some – the other thing is the amount of legislation amended because of MSP lobbying behind the scenes. Plenty of that went on.
#40 by Dubbieside on June 5, 2011 - 11:07 am
OK so that is one Labour MSP in eight years who voted against the party line, mind you it was not a Labour bill but presumably one of Tommy Sheridans that they supported.
Quite a record to defend, and they are questioning the new SNP MSPs in the first week of the new parliament. They have another eight years to try to equal Labours proud record.
#41 by James on June 5, 2011 - 8:32 pm
Cursory examination of history tells a different tale.
Dec 2000 – John McAllion – warrant sales
2001, nine unknown MSPs, election of DPO (ironically)
Sep 2002 – Ken Macintosh – health
Feb 2003 – Susan Deacon – Iraq
Mar 2004 – Helen Eadie, Elaine Smith – PR for local government
Dec 2006 – Bill Butler, Elaine Smith, Malcolm Chisholm, Marlyn Glenn – Trident
Etc. Largely on principle. Name me any point of major principle over which any SNP MSP has ever voted the way SNP Ministers didn’t like.
#42 by Indy on June 6, 2011 - 10:51 am
That is a daft point.
During the first four years of the SNP administration they had a majority of one so the SG was obviously pretty careful what issues they chose to push, not simply from the point of view of making sure the SNP Group was on board but from the point of view of making sure that at least one other party was supportive.
The only issues I can remember them losing on were things like minimum pricing which all of our MSPs supported because the policy had been thoroughly debated and decided internally before it went to the Scottish Parliament.
That’s a big difference in my view. When did Scottish Labour members ever get to actually vote far less decide on policy on Iraq for example? Or on Trident?
And I have to say it really annoys me when elected Labour members say oh of course I was against Iraq on a point of principle. If it was really a point of principle they would have left the party – as many people did.
#43 by GMcM on June 6, 2011 - 9:28 am
Type your comment here
I suggest you read post 39 again and this time use an abacus. It’s simple, just slide the little red balls across everytime you read the name of a Labour MSP.
Simples.