One of my favourite cynical rebukes to the AV referendum is the charge that, if the referendum was to be held under AV, the winner could be ‘don’t care’ after both Yes and No were discarded in the necessary two run-off rounds.
Obviously this is not the case and, thanks to the First Past the Post nature of the contest, we will have a winner from this nastily contested debate in a few weeks time, irrespective of turnout.  Â
Many people will have already considered the possibility of Scotland delivering a resounding ‘Yes’ vote and south of the border returning a shrill ‘No’ vote, with Scotland edging out the latter in the overall result, but how likely is it that will actually happen based on recent polling? Well, somewhere close to ‘quite likely’ as it turns out.Â
The recent Sunday Times poll has UK voteshare at Yes – 40.0% and No -41.5%. A tight win for the No to AV team. (This is admittedly not in keeping with the recent 16 point lead the No team recorded which, for me, appears to be rogue. Note that the Sunday Times poll that I am using had a sample size of 2,735 to this other poll’s 1,033)
The Scottish element of the Times poll is a believable Yes – 43%, No – 33% while rUK has a voteshare of Yes – 39.7%, No-42.3%.    Â
Now let’s say that Scots, largely already at the ballot box for the Holyrood elections, are three times as likely to vote in this referendum compared to the rest of the UK (mindful that there are some local elections and a Welsh assembly vote taking place). This would give a result of Yes-40.6%, No-40.2% (calculated by tripling the Scottish subsample size in the Sunday Times poll).Â
A wafer-thin win for the Yes team then, handed directly to them by a bigger turnout in Scotland.Â
It is difficult to fully comprehend the political carnage that would ensue from this “miserable little compromise” becoming law thanks to Scotland. A horrified right wing Tory group would direct fire towards Lib Dems and Scotland in equal measure, the SNP would struggle to turn down the opportunity to leverage the result to further the cause of independence and David Cameron would have to find a way to accept the result through gritted teeth. Away from Parliament, anti-Scots sentiment down here would reach a new high (low?), many perceiving that England now makes way for Scotland for democratic structure as well as financially. Will many of that Middle England, Daily Mail group decide enough is enough? We’re not all in this together and we cannot go on like this could be the rather ironic refrain.Â
This is of course a contrived result from one individual poll but, if a cross-border difference in results were to happen, it would be the third time in as many years.Â
In 2009, the Conservatives and UKIP won 59% of the English seats available to them in the European elections. In Scotland that figure was 16%.Â
In 2010, the Conservatives won 56% of the available seats in England, in Scotland that figure was 1.7%.
And now, in 2011, Scotland once again has a markedly different take on the issue before us to that of England. Â
How many times can Scotland vote one way and England another while still remaining part of the same country? ‘One more’ could be the answer, particularly if the SNP follows through on this week’s poll and is able to form a majority that can offer an independence referendum.Â
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, whether you believe in the not entirely separate objectives of true proportional representation or Scottish independence, voting Yes on May 5th is your best bet.Â
#1 by Stephen Glenn on April 22, 2011 - 6:02 pm
Once again you forget this a UK wide referendum and also includes Noethern Ireland with all its elections on the same day.
#2 by Jeff on April 22, 2011 - 6:26 pm
I can assure you Stephen that I didn’t forget that Northern Ireland is a part of the UK, I just didn’t include them in this post, chiefly because the Sunday Times didn’t include NI in its poll.
Consequently, I assumed that there would be a 50/50 split of Yes/No votes in NI and so no material impact on the overall result. Checking that now shows that the latest poll has Yes/No at 32/34 in NI which is pretty much a dead heat once the don’t knows and don’t cares are stripped out.
So, in the nicest possible way, what’s your point caller?
#3 by Marcus Warner on April 22, 2011 - 6:58 pm
I always think that English nationalism will deliver independence for both Scotland (and later Wales). This is an example whereby we can let her rip so to speak 😉
#4 by steve on April 22, 2011 - 7:23 pm
Someone should tell all those campaigning for a spoilt ballot paper in Scotland such as the Bella Caledonia lot. Your argument makes more sense to me than theirs, and in fact you may have persuaded me to vote yes.
#5 by Danny1995 on April 22, 2011 - 8:02 pm
I’m urging everyone who’ll listen to vote yes, not for any other motive, but I’ll be a first time voter at the next election and I’m desperate for it to be under any system other than FPTP.
#6 by Martin Cunningham on April 22, 2011 - 8:36 pm
Jeff, I had been saying it all along and boring my friends senseless – that because of the Holyrood election up here boosting voter turnout, we would have the deciding votes in the AV referendum. Obviously, I didn’t have any figures, but that’s why we know we can rely on you 🙂
I agree with Steve above re: the spoilt ballot campaign. I never agreed with what they were doing, and now you have provided figures, I would hope that some individuals will think twice.
#7 by Jeff on April 22, 2011 - 11:13 pm
Thanks Martin, glad I could help out. I don’t get the logic of the Bella Caledonia campaign either but I can’t fault them for their drive, passion and creativity.
#8 by Yowann Byghan on April 22, 2011 - 8:49 pm
And you’ve definitely persuaded me to vote Yes, because I was between a rock and a hard place until I read your very credible and cogent piece. I still grieve at having to buddy up to either Ed Miliband or Call Me Dave – what a horrendous choice to have to make – but I was equally reluctant to offer merely a spoiled ballot with a smiley face drawn on it. Even if the strategy you outline fails, I will feel that my vote was cast with some kind of plan and intelligent purpose in mind. Moran taing – many thanks.
#9 by NoOffenceAlan on April 22, 2011 - 9:10 pm
I’ll be voting on the issue at question on the ballot paper, anything else requires clairvoyance.
You should vote according to your convictions, not to suit someone else’s agenda.
I’ll be voting ‘no’ because AV is not proportional representation.
#10 by Jeff on April 22, 2011 - 10:14 pm
“I’ll be voting ‘no’ because AV is not proportional representation.”
And FPTP is? What a bizarre logic.
#11 by Aidan Skinner on April 22, 2011 - 11:23 pm
I’ll be adding an STV box, ranking that one and AV 2.
#12 by Jeff on April 22, 2011 - 11:31 pm
If you could spoil your 2 Labour votes in a similar way that’d be grand Aidan 😉
#13 by JPJ2 on April 22, 2011 - 9:44 pm
I intend to vote “yes” to AV but I will be surprised if the vote is carried in the UK.
Primarily that is because it is not a PR system, and therefore it is difficult to get up much enthusiasm for something that excites no-one.
I am afraid it is another example of poor negotiation by the LibDem leadership at the time of the coalition creation.
Although I always support the SNP, I do give credit to the LibDems in Scotland for holding out for PR (STV) for the council elections-pity Clegg wasn’t up to the job at Westminster.
I certainly know people who voted LibDem in 2010 in the belief that PR was a non-negotiable issue for the LibDems but now feel badly let down.
#14 by jim jepps on April 22, 2011 - 11:20 pm
I think it would be hard for English MPs to blame Scotland if they lose the referendum down to the increased turnout up here due to Holyrood. After all they voted to keep it on the same day as the Holyrood elections even though they had the opportunity to go for a different date.
If they didn’t want a disproportionate Scottish say on AV they should have moved the date. Simple.
#15 by Jeff on April 22, 2011 - 11:30 pm
V good point Jim, I never thought about that. I do wonder whose decision May 5th was and who originally pushed for it. Clegg would be the obvious answer and that could yet prove to be a very canny move indeed.
#16 by Douglas McLellan on April 23, 2011 - 12:07 am
If not Clegg then definitely a Lib Dem. Having the referendum as a stand alone event on this issue would have had a poor turnout across the UK but at least now its going to get something close to the devolved election turnouts.
I didn’t know about the stuff at Bella Caledonia but whilst it may make them feel better it will not have an effect and, if anything, sets back both voting reform and indeed independence.
#17 by glynbeddau on April 23, 2011 - 8:12 am
I have been arguing that we should place an S (for STV) instead of an X on the ballot paper . If you prefer STV but don’t want AV, then place a S in the YES box. If you don’t want AV, but still want STV place a S in the NO box.
Since you will have indicated a preference this means it is not a spoiled vote and should be counted.
#18 by theshooglypeg on April 23, 2011 - 8:47 am
I think you’re absolutely right Jim, they shouldn’t have had the vote on 5th May if they didn’t want disproportionate numbers of Scottish votes. And of course if people elsewhere in the UK feel strongly that we shouldn’t have AV, then they ought to get out and vote against it. But I don’t think any of that will prevent outrage if Scotland does carry the vote for AV.
#19 by Marcus Warner on April 23, 2011 - 6:17 pm
and to be fair in Wales many of us in Plaid really kicked up a stink about having it on the same day.
The two fall outs were;
– the Welsh elections being dominated by the AV Referendum
– Celtic Nations essentially deciding the vote.
#20 by NikkiiH on April 24, 2011 - 7:55 pm
THANK YOU! I’ve been struggling with this, I’ve swung from Yes to No to Ah Sod It since neither option would leave me feeling like anything other than having a very long shower. I’ll try hard not to think of my Yes vote making Clegg feel all warm inside….. {shudder}.
#21 by Jeff on April 25, 2011 - 12:52 pm
No worries Nikki, glad to help out! It makes perfect sense to me that Yes is the best way to go but I can appreciate that others don’t see it that way…
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