The fourth in our series of examinations of the Scottish Parliament regions, this time I’m in the hotseat and looking at Mid-Scotland and Fife. Â Previous posts on Highlands & Islands, North-East Scotland and the Lothians have all been vigorously debated, so I suspect I’ll ruffle a few feathers again. Â Here goes (constituencies first):
Clackmannanshire and Dunblane – Tight, very tight. Â The profile of an SNP minister who holds the seat against the profile of a former Labour minister who notionally holds the seat. Â I’ve been told the word “disgraced” is supposed to precede “former” in the latter’s case (there’s apparently a memo). Â But we’re fairer than that here (no mud-slinging from us). Â Nevertheless, the mud that has been previously slung, does stick a bit… and leads me to think that the SNP will cling on here… just about. Â SNP hold (Keith Brown – returning).
Cowdenbeath – Likely comfortable.  We’re getting into “dyed in the wool” territory here, I imagine. Labour hold (Helen Eadie – returning).
Dunfermline – This is trickier.  Lib Dem held, but boundary changes plus the corresponding seat returned to Labour at Westminster.  I’m really not sure on this one – it probably depends on how much the national LD vote share holds up, but a notional majority of just 77 makes me think it unlikely they’ll hang on. Lab GAIN (Alex Rowley – new face).
Kirkcaldy – A notional majority of over 3,000, I can’t see this being anything other than a Lab hold (Marlyn Livingstone – returning).
Mid-Fife and Glenrothes – This is a seat where I thought the SNP incumbent might be in trouble, but statistically that isn’t the case. Â Notionally, they have a majority of over 2,000. Â However, the SNP do run the council, and there have been some tough decisions made (which perhaps influenced the outcome of the Glenrothes by-election). Â So I expect it to be closer, but the SNP to hang on here. Â SNP hold (Tricia Marwick – returning)
North-East Fife – A solid Lib Dem seat, but it is the home of a university and this may adversely affect the party’s popularity here. Â If it goes, its a shocker of a night for the Lib Dems, given the notional 4,500 majority. Â I can see that halved, but not disappearing entirely. Â Surely? Â Lib Dem hold (Iain Smith – returning)
Perthshire North – a notional 6,000+ majority for the Cabinet Secretary for Finance. Comfortable hold. Â SNP hold (John Swinney – returning)
Perthshire South and Kinross-shire – A narrower notional majority of 1,400 for the SNP to defend, but I think if their national vote holds up, this will remain safe. Â I think the Tories will throw a lot at it, and probably run them close, dropping the majority to under 1,000… but the SNP will hang on. SNP hold (Roseanna Cunningham – returning)
Stirling – Here’s a tricky one, and one which a lot of regional seats depend on. Â This is notionally Labour (by 300 or so votes) but its held by the SNP. Â I have a lot of family in the area, all very impressed with the work Bruce Crawford has done, certainly much more so than the previous MSP and so the incumbency factor may play a part here. Â Look for the Tories to try and get a bit closer in third… but I think Bruce hangs on here too. Â Just. (notional) SNP GAIN (Bruce Crawford – returning)
With all constituencies accounted for, I make it:
SNP – 5
Labour 3
Lib Dem – 1
Throwing that into my electoral calculator, and using the same methodology as before (opinion polls divided by ratio from 2007) I make the regional seat division to be:
Seat 1: Conservative (Murdo Fraser – returning)
Seat 2: Conservative (Elizabeth Smith – returning)
Seat 3: Lib Dem (Willie Rennie – new face at Holyrood but previously MP)
Seat 4: Labour (John Park – returning)
Seat 5: Conservative (Miles Briggs – new face)
Seat 6: Green (Mark Ruskell – new face for 2011 but returning from 2003-7 session)
Seat 7: SNP (Annabelle Ewing – new face at Holyrood but previously MP)
(Seat 8 would be Labour, with Claire Baker returning to Holyrood, but she loses out if Labour take the Dunfermline constituency from the Lib Dems as the latter are compensated on the list)
There was a mistake in my methodology, which heavily UNDERSTATED Labour’s vote share. Â Thanks to several folk for pointing out I’d made a mistake. I couldn’t find it earlier, but I’ve found it now. Â Anyway, revised figures mean the following:
Seat 1: Conservative (Murdo Fraser – returning)
Seat 2: Conservative (Elizabeth Smith – returning)
Seat 3: Labour (John Park – returning)
Seat 4: Labour (Claire Baker – returning)
Seat 5: Lib Dem (Willie Rennie – new face at Holyrood but previously MP)
Seat 6: Conservative (Miles Briggs – new face)
Seat 7: SNP (Annabelle Ewing – new face at Holyrood but previously MP)
(Seat 8 would be Green – Mark Ruskell returning to Holyrood after missing the 2007-11 session).
So, expected Mid-Scotland and Fife result (2007 in brackets):
SNP –5 + 1 =6 (6)
Labour – 3 + 2 = 5 (5)
Lib Dem – 1 + 1 = 2 (2)
Conservative – 0 + 3 = 3 (3)
7 female to 9 male
12 returning to 4 new faces (2 already known to us as former MPs or MSPs from a previous session)
Tactical voting?
The net result is a Green gain from Labour overall, which is the case whether Labour win Dunfermline from the Lib Dems or not. The net result would now be NO CHANGE from 2007. Â The Lib Dems are due two seats, so if they don’t win one seat, they’ll get one on the list. Â Similarly, the Tories are likely to win 3 of the list seats, while the Greens, with their share of the vote, are also likely to return one. Â Which leaves 2 (or 3, depending on Dunfermline) up for grabs. Â This will depend on the close constituencies – if the SNP hang on in all 5, they’ll claim one list seat and Labour the other (as outlined above). Â If Lab gain one constituency from the SNP (as well as the likely win in Dunfermline), the SNP would win 2 list seats, compensating for their constituency losses (and providing the same overall result, if not faces, as above – we’d also lose John Park from the Parliament). Â If Labour take THREE constituencies from the SNP (unlikely?) as well as Dunfermline, then there is a net gain for Labour. Â In that final scenario however, the Greens would only take the last seat by 200 votes from the SNP… so I guess if the Greens want some tactical voting advice here it is to heavily push for the list vote – I make them short by around 500 or so votes now…
Commenting:
Regrettably, on some of the more recent threads, some of the comments have gotten a bit personal and unfocused. Â Unfortunately, as the election gets closer and tension rises, this is likely to get worse. Â We don’t want this to turn into the comments sections on “quality” newspapers with the excessive aggressive bile on there. Â So let’s try to keep the comments as polite as possible and “respectfully disagree”. Â Otherwise, you can shout about freedom of speech all you like – they will be moderated and binned. Â Thanks in advance.
#1 by Charles on March 24, 2011 - 12:59 pm
Malc – you may be wrong discounting the national swing and new boundaries with regard to the constituencies and region. Unless the national picture changes in the next six weeks, I can’t see the reds going backwards by 1 this year.
It will be very tight, but I think Clacks and Dunblane will go to Richard Simpson (~50 votes or so) who has a high profile in the area (as a MS&F regional MSP) and won Ochil from George Reid in 1999. There are also some local issues like the closing of Waterwatch in Alloa and other services which make this more difficult to call.
I would put money on Stirling going to the reds (John Hendry) as the Eastern villages have joined the constituency this year and are very solid Labour (500+ votes). Also the strong Conservative vote is more likely to split Nationalist than Labour (as they have a theoretical chance of winning Michael Forsyth’s old seat). Bruce Crawford will return as a list MSP and the SNP will have 5 MSPs.
Apart from that – I think you’re on the money.
#2 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 1:13 pm
To be clear, I’m not discounting national swings. I’m simply saying that the national swing is actually an average of 73 local swings… the point being that it varies from constituency to constituency. And in this case they aren’t really going backwards – they are just not going forwards, and others (notably the Greens here) are going forwards enough to pass them. That’s all this is.
On your two cases, I can’t argue with you. Well, I can (since I have) but I think it is pretty subjective, however we cut the numbers. Clacks & Dunblane and Stirling are two of the tightest battles. I suspect they might split (1 Lab/ 1 SNP) since both parties will be throwing activists into each… but because they are next door to one another, the net impact might be neutral.
I’ve gone with the SNP in both cases for 2 reasons: 1) Bruce Crawford is a known, liked, high profile, ministerial entity and has worked hard in the constituency. 2) Richard Simpson HAS a high profile it is true, but for negative and not positive reasons. I suspect there will be several mentions of “firemen” and “fascist bastards” at hustings. I was an undergrad in Stirling at that time and remember that moment well – I don’t think people will forget it.
#3 by Paul on March 24, 2011 - 1:08 pm
Would expect SNP to hold Perth, last election thought Tories had a good chance to pip them but they pulled away a bit.
Stirling is traditionally quite conservative would that help or hinder SNP?
Agree with you and Jeff’s predictions so far, hoping Kenny pulls it out the bag in Edinburgh East though!
#4 by Ewan Dow on March 24, 2011 - 1:24 pm
Interesting analysis of the region Malc, sadly I’d have to agree that the SNP won’t get down to the 8th place on the list – sadly as I’m candidate number 8!
Joking apart though I do agree with your analysis of the constituencies with perhaps one wee variance on the list position.
Based on what I’ve heard at doorsteps in the campaign across MS&F so far, Labour won’t retake, MF&G, C&D or Stirling – in main part as you said in the blog due to the popularity of the incumbants. It seems a strange argument that Charles is making above that the inclusion of the Eastern villages into the new Stirling will see Bruce lose when the SNP have won an Ochils at the past two elections that included the Eastern villages! They are also not as Labour supporting in this election as has been the case in the past.
What we are seeing is a movement from Lab to SNP at the moment as the public focus on Holyrood as opposed to Westminster and I think the region and indeed the election will hinge on how quickly and how widespread that change of focus is shared by the electorate. The other thing we are seeing and this is where I flag up my variance on your suggested list MSPs is the utter collapse of the Lib Dem vote.
At this time I’m not sure if modern Lib Dem voters (as opposed to traditional Liberals) will vote for others or stay at home but they are telling us in droves that they are not voting Lib Dem. There’s a real chance that they might struggle to keep their list seat (that they’ve lost Dunfermline is almost certain), though they might just sneak in.
One final thought and a bizarre wee quirk – as you note Claire Baker might not be returned to Holyrood if Alex Rowley is elected. By weird coincidence they are both (like me) from the village of Kelty! So is this the Kelty election? 🙂
Cheers,
Ewan
#5 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 1:32 pm
Ewan,
Thanks for this – good to hear an honest appraisal from candidates (even if it is in support of your own party!). I agree with most of your comments… even the Lib Dem thing. Our predictions on list votes are based on taking opinion polls and applying it as if the regional share of the national vote was the same as in 2007. So, theoretically, we should be in line with the polls… BUT if Lib Dem voters are telling pollsters they’ll vote LD and then they stay home on election day, that’d throw a big spanner in the works! I guess we’ll see… I do suspect in some areas that their list vote will be high enough to get a list seat to compensate for losing Dunfermline though – they’d only have to carry about 12,000 votes to do so, and I doubt they’ll fall below that on the list here.
If you are ever interested in guest posting… we’re always delighted to host candidates!
#6 by Tormod on March 24, 2011 - 1:59 pm
Alex Rowley god no! I got the usual only libdems can win here with the infamous bar chart.
I also got the bumf from labour who’s pitch is the nasty tories are in power you need us (labour) to protect you.
On a side note, I don’t hold much hope for Labours voting indentification software. As in our household is very much for an independent Scotland and votes accordingly.
My mother in-law is a dyed in the wool labour voter, I asked her to name some of Labours policies.
No response, I asked her to name the leader of labour in Holyrood first answer was Ed thingy, second answer was Thomas Docherty!
I then said it was Ian Gray and even showed her his picture nae clue who he was.
She knows who Alex Salmond is though! As i said Attila the hun could stand and promise to kill her grandchildren and she would still vote labour.
#7 by An Duine Gruamach on March 24, 2011 - 11:28 pm
That’s pretty depressing.
#8 by Colin on March 24, 2011 - 2:03 pm
Am I the only one excited about the prospect of Annabelle Ewing being back in Scottish political life?
I have a lot of respect for Annabelle Ewing and I remember when she refused to apologise to Geoff Hoon in parliament.
#9 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 2:07 pm
I can’t speak for anyone else… but out of you and me, you are the only one excited about it. I have very little respect for her, based on the several occasions I’ve met and campaigned for her, none of which filled me with any feeling that her return to Scottish politics is something to get excited about.
Saying that – I remember the Geoff Hoon incident, and her Parliamentary suspension. Hard to tell whether it was political principle or publicity seeking – but if it was the former, kudos is due, and respect. If the latter… well, that’d be typical.
#10 by Tormod on March 24, 2011 - 2:17 pm
Claire Baker or Alex Rowley jings, not a great choice!
#11 by Chris on March 24, 2011 - 2:18 pm
So in every region so far SNP supporters are telling us how much they like their candidates, and how everyone they have met agrees with them. In fact in every region so far the SNP candidates are going to buck the national trend. It really doesn’t add up.
Incumbency is massively overstated, most people really do not know the name of their representative never mind have an opinion of them. Unless they have done something truely spectacular (good or bad) it really won’t count for more than 2% of the vote and maybe, just maybe, rising nearer 10% if they have been doing a good job for 20 years.
My opinion: Labour to win Stirling as well as Mid-Fife and Glenrothes. SNP to come from third to win North-East Fife following Lib-Dem collapse. Otherwise as it says on the tin.
#12 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 2:22 pm
I’m with you to a point. But that 2% in Clacks & Dunblane or Stirling could make a difference, given the small swings required in each of those cases.
By the way, are you being serious about NE Fife? It’d take one hell of a Lib Dem collapse to lose that seat – do you really expect that to happen? Or are you reverse-psychologising the Nats here?!
#13 by Alex on March 24, 2011 - 5:11 pm
a UNS model with the libs at 10% nationally has them only winning the seat by a 1% or 2%. Where do you think the lib vote will be?
#14 by Jeff on March 24, 2011 - 2:23 pm
I reckon you’re being a bit harsh on Labour here actually.
I can just about see where you’re coming from with Keith Brown (though I don’t get the whole ‘disgraced’ reference!) and I think you’re pushing things to suggest the SNP will take Clackmannanshire & Dunblane ‘and’ Stirling but, to be honest, that is not the big issue for me as (on my model) the SNP losing these seats just means they win 2 more on the list so it doesn’t really change anything.
I don’t really understand how you can have, with Labour to win only 3 FPTP seats, them only taking 1 extra regional seat. 4 out of a total of 16 is really quite low, particularly with the SNP taking 6. I have Labour taking 2 MSPs from the list, at rounds 3 and round 4 of the d’hondt calculator, so pretty safe relatively speaking. (that’s with 36% of the national share of the vote, equating to 32% share of the vote in MS&F).
I also don’t have a Green gain here, even at 6% national voteshare.
#15 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 2:27 pm
Maybe I’ve got something wrong… I’ll go back and look!
#16 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 2:45 pm
Yeah – I have the 36% national equating to 32% for Labour here too. If we have the same figures for Labour, perhaps its our Green vote that is the difference? I make a 6% national share giving them 5.7% here, enough for the 6th seat. But I can’t see how you’ve got Labour at 3 and 4 if that’s the case?
Thinking about it, its probably our SNP share vote that is the problem. I probably over-estimate them based on 2007’s MS&F figure being considerably higher than their national share. I’ve gone through my figures, and can’t find any mathematical errors with the D’Hondt formula, so its likely that we’re starting with different figures.
#17 by Alex on March 24, 2011 - 5:18 pm
malc
i have mentioned in my longer post below, but i think your problem is the lib share / calculation. They gain one constit seat (probably) in Fife North East and thus divide list vote by 2. Unless you are saying they are getting upwards of 16% – 17%, they will not gain the 3rd seat certainly. the question is whether they gain one at all as most polls have them in and around the 10% mark, which would put them on the critical 5% list vote.
#18 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 6:26 pm
Yeah – thanks. I now have them at #5 on the list. Amended figures are in the post. Thanks for pointing out errors!
#19 by Charles on March 24, 2011 - 2:27 pm
Malc – it seems strange that SNP membership would select Ewing over (the supposedly popular) Brown in the list. Is it possible that Brown will be out and Ewing in come May (swapping a minister for a non-msp).
#20 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 2:36 pm
It is entirely possible. And I agree – a very strange outcome. With my ear to the ground, I do hear that Ewing canvassed heavily for support in the area – and she was a former MP so still had some support among activists. But yes – a strange one.
#21 by Ewan Dow on March 24, 2011 - 2:40 pm
Malc, happy to write something for the blog anytime, just let me know.
Chris, if you believe incumbency factors so lowly you’re more than welcome to join me on the doorsteps of Strathmore in Perthshire North over the next few days and see what people think of John Swinney! 🙂
I vividly recall as SNP candidate in Stirling in 1997 a lot of people telling me that Michael Forsyth had been a good constitency MP and they would vote for him if he hadn’t been a Tory. This is an area where a lot of people put the person before the Party label unless that label is a toxic brand.
Don’t think the SNP are quite that.
I note that none of the folk predicting Labour wins at the SNP’s expense have said where they draw that conclusion from. Think it would be helpful to know if this discussion is based on fact (speaking to people or polling info) or just a gut feeling.
Incidentally I wouldn’t say that everyone likes SNP candidates – just to back up Tormod’s point earlier, I was SNP candidate in Dunfermline East in 2007 and I still couldn’t get my own gran to vote for me instead of voting Labour (or so she tells me!)
#22 by Tormod on March 24, 2011 - 3:19 pm
I would agree on the voting Ewan, my mother in law was born and raised in Steelend my father in law comes from coaledge in Crossgates.
Both their fathers were miners, they vote for the past and will always do so sadly.
#23 by ianbeag on March 24, 2011 - 2:45 pm
I can only comment on the Stirling seat and the canvas returns are exceedingly positive for an SNP victory, especially from the landward areas but also above expectations from the Eastern villages. The Labour candidate making big blunders already. Money on Bruce Crawford to win!
#24 by Paul on March 24, 2011 - 3:31 pm
Last election I remember a lot of Conservatives on ScotlandVotes predicted good feedback and a good result in Stirling and they flopped (admittedly there were a lot of Tories on that site fair enough given our SNP dominance of the blogosphere). The SNP can’t stop working hard until the polls close then!
#25 by Alex on March 24, 2011 - 5:08 pm
Malc
I am sorry to say I think this post is based on some dodgy assumptions and some even more dodgy maths. I will try and detail below why, and this is not supposed to be a ‘rant’, but constructive criticism.
1. you really need to detail what opinion poll you are using. Writing a post like this and not detailing the numbers you are referring to is poor blogging to be honest. You could be referring to anything, post your numbers and a link to the poll and let people make their own judgement based on this. If it is a “poll of polls†do this 3, 4, 5 times. Give your readers the info.
2. Why above? Because both the last couple of polls do not give the greens enough for a list seat in MS&F. You gov had them 5% and ICM 4%. In 2007 the greens in MS&F were slightly down on their national vote, so this means at best they get 5%, but more likely slightly below (if purely going on poll v 2007 result). This would not be enough for a list seat, except in really really strange circumstances (ie SNP – lab share all constit seats and tory and lib regional vote collapses to lower than green, not going to happen). Yes they are close to the cusp, and 6% nationally would be enough, but the Scottish polls are not showing this. (lets take out the 3%+- as it is impossible to fairly play with this. The 3%+- lets us talk about 2 close 2 calls, but little else)
3. there is no way the libs will gain the 3rd list seat going on the current polls. Icm and yougov had them at 9% and 6% on the list respectively. Though I think the 9% is far more likely than the 6%, given that they should win Fife North East what ever % they get gets divided by 2. Therefore even 12% on the list, their vote becomes 6% and this will be enough for the 6 or 7th seat at the very best best. They could even get wiped off the list, depending on how bad it gets and other parties performance. I feel the libs and greens could be in competition for the last list seat. Look for the lib % v green %. If green is les that half of lib vote, green could get the 7th seat.
4. Though I will always respect someone else’s opinion, I feel you are looking at the constituencies with a distinct anti labour glare.
a. Dunfermline will just not be that close. Every poll is showing that the lib vote is going to collapse pretty much all across the country. Where they have a significant lead, Fife North East etc, they should be comfortable, where they are close or in notional minority they don’t stand a chance. Jeff got this right in his north east post regarding lib seats, I think you have this very wrong. Where this worries me more is in your impression of the labour vote. If this is your opinion of it, then sadly how can your other seats be right?
b. The 3 SNP – Lab marginals are absolutely critical, not only to this region, but to the overall result. Okay your gut feeling has the SNP winning all three, but the national polls just do not reflect this. Yes individual constituencies are different, but the poll has to come from somewhere. I would bet you that any and every candidate would say that the poll does not reflect their region and mean it, but the trend is usually the same. If the lab vote does go up 5, 6, 7 points nationally, this will be reflected in these seats. I personally feel that Trisha Marwick has the “safest†of the 3 seats, followed by Clack + dunblane and then Stirling as labs ‘easiest’ pick-up, however I feel they are all toss-ups. I would prefer in this case to set out the scenarios for all the situations and how this effects the list.
c. Based on the opinion polls mentioned above, lab are going to pick up list seats almost regardless of what happens in the constituency’s, the difference is going to be how many. My model shows even if they win Dunfermline, they will still pick up 3, with the Tories getting 2, Nats 2 and libs 1. Everytime labour ‘loses’ one of the 3 ‘key’ seats to the nats, they pick up on the list and visa versa for the nats. It could easily actually be nats 6, lab 6, t 2, lib 1 overall, but very small margins could and would change things.
d. The tories could pick up 3 list seats, but again on my model they are in a fight with the nats and the libs for the 7th seat (based on 5 nat fptp seats, 3 lab). Things are flexible and winning and losing is by .3 of a % at max. However, based on the polls, the tories will do very well to take 3 list seats here.
anyway, i have 5’s to go to and have ran out of time. Would be really grateful for a response on some of the above even (especially lib list seat as i feel you have made a mistake somewhere).
#26 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 5:54 pm
Alex,
Thanks for this. Like you, I don’t have the time to detail response here. And I’ve already said there may be a fault in my maths, given Jeff’s numbers are different – but I can’t find what it is! Anyway, on your points:
1) the details of the polls we were working from were in the first regional post (H&I) which is why I haven’t repeated the methodology in any detail here. But – for info – that was Lab-36%, SNP-32%, Con-15%, LD-11% and Green -6%.
2) For the Greens, their share in MS&F in 2007 was 95% of their national vote. So if the poll figure (6%) was right, they’d be on 5.7% here. With the figures I had, that led them to the 6th seat.
3) The Lib Dem figure for lists (YouGov) was 11%, which is what both Jeff and I have been working with. I know there have been other polls since, but figure it should be kept consistent across each of the regions we’re looking at.
4) Its not an anti-Labour glare honest! I’ve said in comments that I think some of the constituencies could go either SNP or Labour, and just think that in a couple of cases, incumbency will be enough to see the SNP home.
a) I think you are right – I was just going by the notional figures on Dunfermline (and trying to be a bit more generous to the Lib Dems than perhaps I should have been!).
b) Again, agree. I did set out the list ramifications in the “tactical voting section” of them going other ways.
c) Again, agree.
See how nice it is when we’re constructively critical?!
#27 by Alex on March 24, 2011 - 8:01 pm
thanks for getting back, and again when the numbers are there, things become a little more clear.
2. on the numbers provided, yes i think the greens will get very close if not getting a seat.
3. i agree 11% gives the libs a list seat, but they are hovering near none.
4. that is what politics is all about, opinion, and i respect that. (would take a bet though 😉 )
btw, what years were you at stirling and what did you study? i did politics and if you did the same i imagine we were in some of the same classes. I was out campaigning for Simpson in 2003, not a pleasant night as my ‘home’ seat is edin south and the libs took that, after numerous re-counts at 6am in morning or something.
#28 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 8:12 pm
My undergrad was 2002-2006, and my degree was politics. If we were the same years, we couldn’t not have been in the same classes eh?
I did most campaigning in 2005 UK election though. Finished at 10pm on election night, went to my uncle’s to watch the results until 6am before driving back home (on campus) with a quick stop up at the castle to contemplate the campaign’s work. Ah yes – I was a dreamer…
On your points though – indeed, I think most of the regions have +/-1,000 votes being the difference between seat 4 and seat 8, so it’ll hinge on who can get their vote out – and attract waverers to them.
#29 by Alex on March 24, 2011 - 9:04 pm
in was 2001 – 2005, so we must have been. You weren’t part of the ssp crowd were you?
#30 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 10:01 pm
Of course not!
#31 by Alex on March 24, 2011 - 8:29 pm
hi Malc
sorry to be a bit pedantic about the polling, but i can find no holyrood poll around the start of march showing the results given. Could you provide a link to it as i don’t usually miss any.
thanks
Alex
#32 by Alex on March 24, 2011 - 8:45 pm
sorry, please ignore. i have just found it.
though i would say doing a prediction on a poll from the start of december a little dodgy. Could you not create a polling average as we have had a glut and this should remove rogue polls)
for example – from the last 5 i know of, YouGov 18 mar, icm 18 mar, progressive scottish opinion – mail on Sunday 13 mar, tns 07 mar and mori 27 feb
we get
Polling average (left is solidarity / SSP etc)
Lab SNP Con Lib Green Left Oth
constit 41.60% 34.20% 12.00% 8.00% 0.00% 0.00% 3.60%
list 39.80% 31.60% 12.20% 7.20% 4.60% 1.80% 2.80%
or, as the 3 polls furthest back seem out of line a bit (v high lab, low snp, v low lib, you could do last couple (until we get a new poll)
so, yougov and icm =
Polling average (2)
Lab SNP Con Lib Green Left Oth
constit 40.00% 36.50% 11.00% 8.00% 0.00% 0.00% 4.50%
list 38.00% 33.00% 12.00% 7.50% 4.50% 2.00% 3.00%
just a thought, and knock me down if you want.
Alex
#33 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 8:52 pm
Alex – I’m glad you found it, because I was struggling to find it! I don’t know why we’re using that one – to be honest, there was no decision-making process on that. I’ll be honest – I just used the numbers Jeff was using. Maybe he can tell us why that’s the poll he chose?!
#34 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 8:53 pm
Oh, and the polling average is a good idea… maybe something we should consider.
#35 by Danny1995 on March 24, 2011 - 5:56 pm
C & D: Richard Simpson(LAB)
Cowdenbeath: Helen Eadie(LAB)
Dunfermline: Alex Rowley(LAB)
Kirkcaldy: Marlyn Livingstone(LAB)
M F & G: Claire Baker(LAB)
NE Fife: Iain Smith(LD)
Perthshire North: John Swinney(SNP)
Perthshire South & Kinross-shire: Roseanna Cunningham(SNP)
Stirling: John Hendry(LAB)
1. Murdo Fraser(CON)
2. Bruce Crawford(SNP)
3. Liz Smith(CON)
4. Annabelle Ewing(SNP)
5. Keith Brown(SNP)
6. Willie Rennie(LD)
7. Miles Biggs(CON)
Total
6LAB, 5 SNP, 3CON, 2LD
Running(3 of 8 regions predicted)
SNP – 21
LAB – 13
CON – 5
LD – 5
#36 by Daniel J on March 24, 2011 - 7:36 pm
I wouldn’t discount the MS&F Greens, they have a substantial amount of money behind them this time round.
I would wager that it would be enough to make up the 500 votes 😉
#37 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 7:58 pm
You didn’t hear me say it wouldn’t!
#38 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 5:57 pm
STOP PRESS! I’VE FOUND MY MISTAKE! It was in Labour’s vote share. Actually, it wasn’t – it was a mistake in my formula – but it reduced Labour’s vote share dramatically. Will amend above. Apologies for misleading!
#39 by Charles on March 24, 2011 - 6:07 pm
Thought something was up 🙂
I think #25 – based on current polls is probably a more realistic scenario- but John Park would be out – falling on his own sword on May 6th – strange thing politics!
#40 by Chris on March 24, 2011 - 7:19 pm
I am not using reverse psych on the SNP re NE Fife, I would rather a SNP victory than a LibDem as I am one of those old-fashioned types mourning the demise of SLA and who still doesn’t believe that the SNP are the enemy!. Maybe I am just being kind to them. The anti-govt vote has to go somewhere and Labour aren’t in with an earthtly and with a strong student and academic vote the LibDems should get a severe kicking.
If you cast your minds back to 2007, the Labour MSPs who were anti-Trident, anti-war and anti-tuition fees still got a kicking. As I said incumbency is over-rated. I expect the LibDems to suffer in a simalar way.
#41 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 8:00 pm
Maybe. But coming from third – and turning around a 6,000 majority from 2007 (granted, a notional 4,500) majority would be a major feat – and the SNP’s poll figures don’t (at the moment) seem to point to such a shift. But we shall see.
#42 by Top Tory Aide on March 24, 2011 - 8:13 pm
I take it if Rowley wins and Baker wins then Park gets in on list and Simpson is the casualty?
#43 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 8:18 pm
Yep – that seems to fit. List is 1) Park, 2) Baker, 3) Simpson… so if Richard Simpson doesn’t win Clacks & Dunblane, he’s likely gone.
But its the same story for Keith Brown as John Swinney, Bruce Crawford, Roseanna Cunningham and Annabelle Ewing are ahead of him on the SNP list. It’d be almost impossible for him to be returned on the list I think. So – a winner-takes-all battle here.
#44 by Top Tory Aide on March 24, 2011 - 8:21 pm
I wasn’t sure of either the SNP list for the region nor the Labour one so thanks very much.
For what it’s worth:
C & D: Keith Brown (SNP)
Cowdenbeath: Helen Eadie(LAB)
Dunfermline: Alex Rowley(LAB)
Kirkcaldy: Marlyn Livingstone(LAB)
M F & G: Tricia Marwick (SNP)
NE Fife: Iain Smith(LD)
Perthshire North: John Swinney(SNP)
Perthshire South & Kinross-shire: Roseanna Cunningham(SNP)
Stirling: Bruce Crawford (SNP)
#45 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 8:25 pm
That’s what I have too, and I’ve copped some flak for it!
#46 by Top Tory Aide on March 24, 2011 - 8:27 pm
Not sure why… Whilst I don’t agree that Simpson’s previous comments will damage him, I think his period out of parliament probably rehabilitated him, I just think that Keith Brown will hold that mind you that is an assumption made, much like yours, on national stuff not what is happening on the doors etc.
#47 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 8:31 pm
Yeah – it was more the fact that I’d come down on the side of the SNP in each of the marginals (Stirling, Clacks & Dunblane, even MF& Glenrothes)… and that folk thought I was a bit biased. Its not that – I just think, like you, they’ll hang on in each. But we’ll see.
#48 by Chris on March 24, 2011 - 9:51 pm
So are you predicting a SNP majority then???? Or merely the largest party?
#49 by Malc on March 24, 2011 - 10:07 pm
What makes you think that? We’ve looked at 4 regions so far – specifically the ones which the SNP do well in. We’ve got 4 still to do – three of which are likely to return a majority of Labour MSPs.
No party will get a majority (65+ MSPs). Take that to the bank right now. I think Labour will be the largest party, but only be a seat or 2.
#50 by Gaz on March 25, 2011 - 12:38 am
Interesting debate about incumbency going on. It seems to me that it flies in the face of all the evidence to say that it doesn’t matter.
If you are a well liked, diligent representative you will be rewarded by those you have met and helped. Most people outside of the political classes are happy to vote for a person rather than a party.
The other side of the coin is that if you are a complacent, arrogant arse then you won’t stave off a national tide.
We just have to look back at the 2007 elections and see how some Labour MSPs held on against the national trend and how some who were ‘numerically safer’ were swept away. Why did Labour lose Cunninghamme North but hold Cumbernauld and Kilsyth? Why did they lose Livingston but hold Linlithgow? Does anyone believe Kenny McAskill would have won as easily if he had been standing against Susan Deacon rather than whoever the Labour candidate was?
Incumbency is a crucial factor whenever the electorate is asked to vote for a candidate. It is probably the real reason why the SNP want to portray the overall election as a personal battle between Salmond and Gray.
#51 by Kate on March 25, 2011 - 9:25 am
Kenny Gibson won because a ballot box got wet coming over from the islands and lots of votes were voided.
#52 by Top Tory Aide on March 25, 2011 - 7:10 am
Type your comment here
Labour lost Cunninghame North because Kenny Gibson worked his socks off and they had the national swing on their side yet won by less than fifty votes.
In Cumbernauld the SNP had a candidate, in Jamie Hepburn, who believed he just needed to turn up to win it. What with the national swing and Andrew Wilson’s work ahead of 2003 election. It wasn’t enough for him to win it.
#53 by Gaz on March 25, 2011 - 10:19 pm
Indeed TTA – and if Allan Wilson had worked his socks off? And if Cathy Craigie had just spent 4 years thinking she just needed to turn up?
The point I was making is incumbency provides a fantastic opportunity but it has to be grasped.
#54 by Paul on March 26, 2011 - 5:17 pm
Kate, no doubt you will be hoping Kenny Gibson drops the ball enough so that Allan Wilson doesn’t have to cry foul over ‘spoilt votes’ again! 🙂
But we can get onto that seat soon.
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